00:00.00

wongga

They want me to do like 4 sharp claps just to get a spike in there so they know when when to start and then we'll get right into it all right? So if you're ready I will do this right now.

00:17.37

wongga

Okay, welcome to our podcast today I have the pleasure of interviewing a good friend and colleague Rafik Punjani rafiq welcome yeah so I appreciate you spending the ah the time. Um.

00:27.31

Rafiq Punjani

Um, thanks, got it Lovely to be here.

00:32.10

wongga

With us to sort of tell your story and we'll ah hang out for a little bit together and see where this takes us Um, but for our audience Why don't you tell us a little bit about your story and your background.

00:46.47

Rafiq Punjani

So born and raised in Pakistan um, life was tough, parents worked hard saved money for my education and I could see them working hard in a society which was honestly not.

01:03.44

Rafiq Punjani

Not going anywhere so I got a good job ah with ernest and young moved to Dubai and Abu Abi um and worked there for about 10 years me and my wife that's a great place to live and work for a short period of time you know one of the challenges that we faced. Was that as much as you work hard and save the money you don't have much to invest that money in because as the foreign expatriate you will never be a citizen there. So if you end up investing in something and the rules change you lose your investment and we had seen people gone through that. So we did not want to invest money there. So so what do you do? So you know if you end up having some savings you either buy gold coins but then you need a bank locker for that and you know again, that's not the best. It's ah it's a good 10 percent portfolio kind of thing but your portfolio cannot be 80% Gold coins so and we didn't know what else to do. So that was one of the reasons for us to then look for another country where we could immigrate to and then then invest. Also there were some other reasons humanitarian and whatnot. We can go into details in ah in a different chat but that led us to Canada in 2013 so we came here about nine ten years ago um I had a job. My wife initially she was also working and you know again same thing middle class people were working hard and trying to save some money for future. But what we realized in Canada was that there's a lot of taxes.

02:36.45

Rafiq Punjani

And we both being accountants. We said hey how can we not pay as much taxes as ah, like a regular person would do like how can I how can I use the system well to my to my knowledge and ah starting a business was the first thing where you know the rich dad poured at philosophy. So we started our first company a bookkeeping company and 1 thing that I learned and I would love to share with your audience that any business which is not scalable. For example, a bookkeeping business where you are the business. It takes the same amount of hard work if you start a scalable business because starting a business is pretty much the same amount of hard work. Ah, we learned it the hard way if we didn't have any mentors so that's another thing have a mentor who can who can tell you these things or and if you're listening to getard sparkcast you are already on the right track. So. Now we started a bookkeeping company in the first two years worked really hard had a good client base. But then we reached a glass ceiling where we could not work anymore hours. So you said hey what's going wrong it I'm working so much but I'm not getting a work life balance. It was in a way I was the business of working in the business not not on it right. And we said hey this is never scalable I will never be able to retire in Bahamas so what has to change and that's where we started reading the right books and talking to the right people and that's where we bought our first franchise so we own a commercial janitorial franchise where we franchise.

04:05.35

Rafiq Punjani

Ah, there are small businesses to to start a cleaning company. We now have award fifty over fifty franchises in Winnipeg which is now you can see scalable business working same amount of time. But now you have a larger team. So so that's that and then you know after 3 years of running. Um. A good successful cleaning company. We again had saved some money and say hey what do we do with this saved money so we ah started a home care company in which we also operate now. So we have 2 corporations and both companies you know, pay us enough and you know we make enough savings that we say hey we have to do something for a more tangible investment out of this. And that's where I met people like gartt and you know in the local business community helped me bought my first home and then taught me how to pull money out of the equity and buy my second home and yeah 7 years down the line we have ah quite a small portfolio. But. It's all right? We are working on the right track I think.

05:04.14

wongga

Amazing! Amazing! You know when I met you several years ago um your group your cleaning company was just getting into the pp I believe I asked your family member in ah in another business meeting um to join the pp may um, just for our listeners. The ppma is the ah. Manitoba Professional Property Managers Association um and seeing your story. You know the way you're investing in franchise is really really intriguing to me tell tell the audience why you chose to invest in a franchise versus again, starting a cleaning business on your own.

05:37.71

Rafiq Punjani

Um, ah I for for 2 reasons I think see we already had a bookkeeping company and when we started the bookkeeping company. You know you have no ah you know cash flow per se coming every month so you try to save as much money as possible. And you know I was doing my own um setting up the website or even if I'm using the people to create a website I had to keep an eye on a lot of processes of my own you know, ah leads coming in or if a customer is calling you have to to manage the. To manage the sales process by orself and then service delivery as well and every process you have to create on top. You have to create your marketing plan on top. You have to create hey which software is correct for me and that is daunting that is many times exhausting and doesn't leave you with much energy to actually make money in the business. So from that experience and then also I had learned by that time that I'm ah I'm a hardworking guy and if somebody gives me a process I can I can follow that so when starting the cleaning company. We had a choice of starting our own company but I didn't not know cleaning at all I knew there was a demand. In the cleaning space. So if I had an option of either learning cleaning of my own and the whole industry or buying a franchise and leveraging the demand which is available today if we had to start our own thing. It would have taken us 2 3 maybe 4 years by the time to learn the industry well, but by that time the other players would have already come.

07:04.94

Rafiq Punjani

And I am glad that we did that because when we started ah Anego cleaning in 2016 in a way jannyking was my only competition in Winnipeg. Ah if I had taken my sweet time of starting my own company if said 3 years by Twenty Nineteen Jan pro was here coverall was here. Um, you know. There were few other players. So I think starting early with a franchise having processes and starting fast gave us a head start and we captured a better market at that time. Also now I know from franchising business that if you have the right franchise partner. That's also a thing right? like if you it's not only about buying a franchise about buying the franchise so doing the right investigation initially choosing the right partners I remember when we were picking a cleaning company franchise app you know I met with few others as well. But 1 of the reasons why we bought anego. Was that the owners of anigou was ah was a very practicing Christian family. They used to go once a year use their profits and savings from aneo to work in some of the underprivileged african communities and that was the biggest thing maybe Anigo wasn't the was not the biggest company at that time. I could have bought another big company's franchise but it's also about the values I wanted to work with somebody whose values whose values and and vision was to help people just like I have so looking at that in aiggal we purchased aigo and since then we have a very good relationship with them.

08:40.28

Rafiq Punjani

And now what it does some people say hey franchising actually restricts you um ah to the contrary for us franchising has given us a path and on that path there have been times where we had to take a slight detour to make it more vinepegized that business and our franchisor has always been very. Ah, accepting of that because we have that relationship because we have the same vision. So I think initially choosing the right franchise partner is key.

09:07.84

wongga

Interesting. So Basically what you're saying because I mean everybody knows or I mean Assumes there's there's a cost associated with a franchise you have to buy the franchise.. There's I imagine ongoing franchise fees some things about you know, paying for your share of advertising and things like that. But what you're talking about here is the concept of collapsing time so you chose to invest money you're hard earned money into buying into a franchise knowing and hoping that um, all of the.

09:29.32

Rafiq Punjani

Hundred percent

09:40.91

wongga

I Guess that's what you're paying for. You're paying for somebody else's experience. Would you agree with that.

09:46.11

Rafiq Punjani

Hundred percent like and and what also ah what also happens once you have purchased their 30 years worth of experience to kickstart your business on an ongoing basis. Also you are part of a very large team like imagine. Going into Twenty Twenty covid world in a cleaning industry where now your clients. Expect you of giving them the solutions for disinfecting and if Rafiq had his own company could I still have come up with some solutions. Yeah, you know I work hard I read I get myself educated but with Anego. Within three weeks there was a marketing strategy that how will we educate and grow the business simultaneously. So on 1 hand helping our clients and then how to then make those clients our long-term clients and within. Three weeks we lost 50% of our recurring clients but we also gained a lot of those clients which were never part of our system who now needed this infection but they only got attracted to us because we had a great marketing platform and Anego came up with that for all their franchise territories. Like me so last two years in cleaning industry have been challenging. Yes, just like everyone but we have also reaped benefits of being in the right time at the right industry and I think that all the money that we invested in the in in 2016 in a way got.

11:15.78

Rafiq Punjani

Got somehow um leveraged during this time right? and and now we can. We can expand our business even more.

11:22.80

wongga

No, that's that's great. So let's transition a little bit here I mean couple of couple of businesses bookkeeping. Um, you're obviously a really busy guy. Why invest in real estate.

11:35.99

Rafiq Punjani

You know, get it I still remember that. Um, when we first rented our space on on pem and a highway are like a first proper commercial space for Anego cleaning our landlord wise guy. Um, you know.

11:53.18

Rafiq Punjani

Older gentleman I would say in his ah late 50 s sixty s kind of you know, a lot of experience behind the years and um, one day I saw him shoveling the the parking lot win Winnipeck right? So winter. So and I said this guy comes in his convertible mercedes. But he's shoveling the backyard like what's going on how would he even have time to do this so I invited him inside. He was obviously called. We had a cup of coffee and I said ah Robert enlightened me how do you have even time to shovel this thing like why won't you just outsource. It is that yeah I don't work so really, you don't work. What do you do. Like I know I have to work to pay the mortgage if you own this building where which I rent you just pay the mortgage by the rent like I didn't even get the concept at that time you say Yeah I have I have about but 20 odd properties out of which I would say eighteen are fully paid off. This is one of them and I collect rent and i. Try to keep myself busy with the small jobs yet and there and if if a job is big enough. Obviously I'll hire somebody said wow you have 20 properties I could not even comprehend that at that time he said yeah I said you know what? I'll buy you dinner. Why don't you coach me how to even start like I don't even know what to What's the first step there. He said deal get it. That's the best twenty five bucks I have ever spent best a great 2 hours of chat with somebody who was wise and knowledgeable and he taught he told me to save money for the first down payment by the property location location. Location.

13:28.61

Rafiq Punjani

Ah, when you buy the property try to you know know your tenant beforehand. So if you want to rent it to a young couple who is working in downtown but they will be you know moving every couple of years then you get a property close to downtown. But if you're looking to. Rent to somebody who you want them to be there for like 18 years get a property closer to a school and maybe slightly away from downtown close to a playground even that kind of thing he was giving me all those tips and I was taking mental notes and and then I said okay so first house then what and then he said okay you know in 3 years time they would have patented paid enough mortgage. For you and by the time you still save money that you have some equity and some of your own saving and by your second one and then in next time it won't take 3 years it will only take 2 years because your 2 houses are being paid mortgage so he was in a way giving me a time lapse that. The first house to second house will be a 3 hree -year gap from 3 to ah another 2 years will be another house and and he said rafik if you do this I can tell you in 6 to 7 years You will have 6 to 7 houses or sooner if the market goes in your direction I said sure let me attempt it? Um, that was. 2017 2022 it's five years and we now have 7 properties 2 years beforehand because market was in our favor right? The prices were going up. We used a line of credit and bought a couple of couple of more properties than what we had aimed for what I'm trying to say here is that I think.

15:00.52

Rafiq Punjani

If we start just blank. It will take longer. There is the path. There is a path you know people have walked that path before but if you try to find that pathrself. It'll just take longer. But if we have mentors if we are open to learning you know if there is a reason why god has given us 2 ear and 1 mouth right? so. Um, listen listen listen implement it and then one fine day if somebody like get it is kind enough green white you on a podcast then you talk but on all other places you just listen and and and try to be a better person and better investor.

15:33.69

wongga

Wow Um I Think the the audience is how help they're taking notes because I certainly am you know? Um, you seem to have a very structured approach to everything you do and I assume part of that is being rafique but part of it is probably the structure in owning a franchise with your experience. Tell our audience. How being a franchisee has affected the way you approach real estate investment.

15:56.88

Rafiq Punjani

So I've never been a micromanager and I don't like details but business needs details and processes right? So That was one of the reasons why we. Got into franchising so that they give us processes I don't have to reinvent anything and it will just follow. Um, what we what we try to do in our real estate world is that we we look for a system. You know we look for a simple system of looking for good detached properties. That's it. So I hear so much about oh you'll get better value in Duplexes or some people say you should look for this and look for that and great. You know it works for them. But I don't want to do everything I don't have to do everything. Um, we think that the process that we have is single detached homes in safe neighborhoods. Good homes newer looking homes. Not 150 year old homes. But maybe only 50 year old homes which gives us good value Once we have figured out that system. It's just like franchising process. You just keep on doing it. Also what we learned that in our franchising world. There are certain things. Our franchisors do. But saves us time to do to allow us to do what we do really well in my World. We have an accountant although I'm an accountant I don't do my own taxes I don't do my own Accounting. We have an accountant they do the accounting. We have a lawyer. We have a real estate Broker. We have a mortgage.

17:27.90

Rafiq Punjani

You have a property management cup like these are 4 or 5 strong partners you need for you to then focus on finding the right property and working with your bank to to get to the next property. Um I think french I think has taught me that and and and also a lot of. A lot of people like you get it like you know when I still remember that when I first met with you having this comfort that I have knowledgeable people around me has taught me so much like every time when I'm buying the next property I'm not worried about who will manage it because if I'm thinking about I'll get another. I'll get more calls in the middle of the night from my tenants or if somebody will stop paying. Oh oh my god how will I go to rtb I remember when one of my properties. The tenant is stop paying get it. Do you guys manage it and that was a pain in the ah you know for for so many months and you guys resolved it in just a couple of weeks right and that comfort that having the right partner allows me to buy the next property without the fear of losing my midnight sleep so franchising a process a system real estate ah process a system once the process is there then it just works like a machine.

18:32.42

wongga

Okay, that makes sense. Yeah I mean you've got your checklists your processes I mean I I know that as a small business owner I mean you know my background I used to be in science and that has a little bit of process there. But certainly. It's not business. And I I do wish um because you know I've been doing this for about 25 years that maybe I could have bought into a property management franchise or a business franchise or at least had a mentor because everything I know here is the school of hard knocks and it was years and years and years of sweat and blood and tears before coming to this point. And even then I still continue to learn. Um and I'm doing the same thing you do I have mentors I speak to people I listen rather than speaking you know? Um, so yeah, so you know real estate in particular property. Management's extremely fluid. You never know what the next day is going to bring. Um, again from a franchisee's mindset. How do you approach the day-to-day stresses of what could happen in real estate.

19:36.14

Rafiq Punjani

I don't um ah the property management partners that we have they do and they do a very good job at that I think my my job is to to make sure that I don't get stressed. There are times when market is going up. And um, you are worried about should I buy should I not buy whether will I buy at the wrong price and I think that if I'm buying for a long run like if I'm buying to buy and hold and rent if that's the strategy then in 10 years time I'll be cursing myself if I don't buy. If I end up buying for ten or twenty Thousand dollars more in 10 years time I won't care. But for now it is about buying at a set time. So every every one year or every ten months or every two years whatever is the audience's frequency of buying the next property. Go with that frequency and then you know there are times when market is too high and nobody's buying. That's the best time to buy yes, interest rates will be high get variable at that time. Don't lock yourself up but you'll get you may end up paying for example, $500 more towards your interest sure. Okay, good for about eighteen months if you do that. ten thousand bucks but you'll get great deals on properties. You may end up saving thirty forty grand on a property by paying $10000 more interest. That's a great deal so getting a property regularly is important not trying to time the market I think that is my job so that I don't get distracted by.

21:02.98

Rafiq Punjani

Interest rates and property prices going up or down my job is to to be focused on looking for the next property according to my timeline because the timeline is important. We have made a financial plan that if we end up buying x number of properties when I am x number of years. Then that's enough for my for my retirement nest now you know even billionaires are still trying to make more money so no money is ever enough if the if the listener's goal is to make unlimited amount of money I'm the wrong guy to listen to. But if your plan is to have a work-life balance where you say I have enough to feed my family today and I'm saving enough for my children and for myself for the future then make a plan and if that plan says hey buy 20 properties in 20 years sure it starts soon. So that you have that those 20 years right and then once you have those 20 properties don't look for the twenty first because then it's a never ending journey billionaires are still working hard to make more money and and again, that's that's how I train my mind I say don't get distracted focus on the plan. And I think our plan right now is that if we work for another ten ish year in this way that we are right now and you know the the properties that we are getting. We may get to our plan by ah 55 ish you know in about 1012 years and that's where I'll say okay.

22:39.58

Rafiq Punjani

Can I use the remaining savings and equity now to pay off 1 property and the next year pay off the second property and next pay third property and that way in next 5 to 6 year we'll try to pay off as many properties as possible. So that now the rent that comes in that becomes my retirement income. And then I can have a quality of life can I actually get to 40 properties. Maybe yes can I get 200 properties maybe yes, but do I have to that's the question. Do I have to what I need is peace of mind and if enough gives me peace of mind. That's what I'm aiming for.

23:11.79

wongga

Okay, so to summarize it then the way I've I've been listening here you you have franchises, you've got a franchisee's Mindset. You have a plan long and short-term you're sticking to it and you're being disciplined about it. Um, but let let me throw a curveball at you here because not all plans go to ah you know come to fruition as you know, um and they you know in business they have something called the Pivot. So How how do you deal with unexpected. Things that might upset your plans and have you go in a slightly different direction.

23:52.58

Rafiq Punjani

Ah, by working hard. Um, you know working hard is is a very broad term but everybody applies that to their situation I'll give an example, um, you know curveball talking about curveballs covid 2 years back gave. All of us our shares our share of that and losing over 50% of our recurring commercial cleaning clients in two weeks time was was challenging to say the least because when. All offices were closed. Everybody was working from home. Nobody was needing office cleaning per se so every day we'll get dozens of letters saying we are closing the office no need for cleaners to come and you lose 50% of your business in three weeks now what do you do you work hard. And those three weeks we worked a lot in terms of getting o ourselves educated I got my biohazard advisory council certification from international sanitary and supply association. So now I'm a gbag certified guy that certification now remains with me covid is over. But. That remains with me. So now when I go for a proposal when I meet with John and I say hey John and a go cleaning company I'm the owner and I'm g back certified I know what I'm talking about I have this edge over my competition for the rest of my life working hard during that time and then pivoting going into this infection was.

25:17.75

Rafiq Punjani

Buying the inventory learning about the disinfection procedures training our cleaners on that batch First 2 month of covid was no income and maybe 3 times of expenses. But once we did that hard work and pivoted as required the the next two years we not only got the. Initial investment back and made some money but we cannot lose focus. We cannot get a stress by saying oh my god I lost 50% of my clients and I can't sleep and I can't eat and who will pay the bill. Some people went through that and I'm fortunate I didn't and I think one of the reasons I didn't because. I have ah I have a good team. You know my my family is a family-run business. We all value each other really? Well we all support each other well I think there has to be a village that has to be a cohort that has to be a caravan you know if you. You you may go fast if you go alone but you know you'll go long if you if you have a team. That's how I see it.

26:14.57

wongga

You know that you're ah I actually had that as one of the questions I wanted to ask you You know? um, let's pivot into ah partnerships you have family as partners which can even be more you know more volatile than friends or even other types of partners and. And in real estate. Um I think our audience might be interested because real estate is all about partners your joint venture partners your business Partners. You know family Members. What is your approach to making and cultivating a successful partnership in your business. You know, maybe specifically to your franchise and family partners etc.

26:52.30

Rafiq Punjani

Yeah, we we had our share of challenges as well who doesn't write. Um, there is ah there is a reason why people say don't do business with family but I always believed that if I had to trust somebody because you have to trust in business if you have to trust somebody. You know with our family. We trust with our lives right? They are on our wills. They they have the they have the keys to our homes. You know we we live together. We eat together. So if we can't trust them then who else I can trust so we started with that and you know there were a couple of. Things that didn't work and a couple of things that did work really really well and if I could go back in time I will do all over that again because the positives outweigh the negatives at least for me and I think the reason it worked because we were always very transparent and honest with each other. Um. We All are strong people. We All we all I think are smart people and bring a lot to the table. So I think I have to leave my ego outside the management office when I'm meeting with my partners and if somebody brings a good point to the table which is contrary to mine I should have the balls to say you are right I'm wrong and if we do that then. The other person feels valued and and then is a teamwork if I keep on shutting down others and if I just say I'm the boss and we'll do it this way then there is no way we can cultivate a knowledge base partnership. So Why I call it a knowledge-based partnership.

28:18.79

Rafiq Punjani

In our world in our in our small team here. We are 4 partners and interestingly we all 4 bring a unique skill set. So I take care of the community relationships making new relationships sales. Um, you know making. Friends outside who will help us in our endverse right? That is my job. My wife being an accountant she takes care of the accounting side of our business. You also worked in in a legal firm so she takes care of on law in ah hr my brother in Law. He's an ex- Ibm guy so he takes care of all the processes and it t. And my sister being a nurse she takes care of our home care service delivery and our cleaning trainings. So we are for bringing a very unique skill set to the management table. 1 thing key that we did which I don't see many people do is that we all gave veto to each other. So yes. For example, if I want to hey should I get a ppm a membership or not and yes we talk about it and the other three may say no, don't spend that money but being a sales veto I can still say I'm going to do it. Do we use that veto a lot. No. Hardly maybe twice or thrice in past six years but having that veto give us power that we can. We can add value based on the knowledge that we bring to the table and I think that has been that has been a defining factor in our relationship. We still had.

29:48.77

Rafiq Punjani

Our tough days there have been times where we had ah shouted and screamed on each other but we all knew that the other person is right now being very passionate about it because he or she is very passionate about the company that I co-owns right? and. And I really value that now on the other side. There are a couple of partnerships that didnt not work. You know within our family and we we tried to. We tried to bring a couple of other partners so that you know they could also get but benefit and value out of the growing business and their their dreams were different I think 1 thing which I'll which i'll. Tell your audiences if you go in this direction have an exit strategy agree with everyone that if you have to part ways. It should not be at the expense of anybody's feelings and you know if it is only objective um departure you can sit down and say hey it's not working rather than storming out. You know. And if you if you talk about it. It can be done.

30:46.75

wongga

Wow Wow. Um I'm taking notes here because I'm I'm learning just as much so I just want to sort of backtrack and get into the weeds on what you just said. So you have like did you formalize this veto. Um, concept with your partnership or did it kind of just evolve.

31:09.89

Rafiq Punjani

Ah, kind of both like it's not that on day one we said we'll only become partners if there is a veto but we initially became partners and you know a couple of partners were new to business and initially they were all listening listening listening and and absorbing and. Trying to add as much value as they can but you know six months down the line or or a year down the line. We could see like me and my wife we were the earlier partners. We could see that my sister and my my brother-in-law who are the other 2 partners. They have learned enough. They have caught up and ah they are adding value. And you know there have been a couple of times where kindly, but assertively they told us that hey sometimes I feel that you don't listen to what I'm saying but I'm telling you this is the right thing to do for the business and I said wow you know what. I'm glad that today when you told this to me I was in a good moon and I'm listening to it what if in one day I'm not in a good mood and don't listen to you. We need to have a process around it so that if it is your area and you want to get heard or you want to implement something which you think is right for the business. You should have a veto on that and. And that's how it started a little later in the partnership based on learning and and that's that's a good point I'm glad you raised that because we all should continue to learn I think I think future is a knowledge society.

32:29.96

Rafiq Punjani

And the dave and we stop learning either from our experiences or from reading books or listening to podcasts or audible books or whatever the dave and we say I don't have time to learn it just like you say that you know I'm driving very fast and I don't have time to stop for refueling my car. You have to refueel. Because the next turn or the the next Junction. Everything is so different. You know you mean you mentioned about the curbball and the pivots if we are not ready. How will we make those changes like you know people say 2023 will be a recession or you know, Ah, the new world order and a new global currency and reserve currency. Wow! A lot of theories. How does get it and rafique and the listeners plan for it because when those days will come everybody in a way is on its own or within the small cohorts and more Knowledgeable. We are about those things we'll be able to better protect ourselves our investments and our families. So think about it. Think about it in every family. For example, there is somebody who you go to when you have a medical related question right? That is a doctor that is a nurse there is there is somebody who is medicine and if you have a medicine question before going to your doctor you give your give them a call right? A that's going on.. What do you think right? similarly v. Listeners here and me and get at you. We are kind of the investment and finance people when the world will be falling your friends and family will call you and say hey this is what's happening with my investments or what should I do next they will rely on us and we have to be educated enough to be able to to the best of our ability guide them. That's the.

34:03.70

Rafiq Punjani

Definition of a cohort like how can we rely on others for their skills but we say I'm not learning anything new because who cares we have to it is it is our responsibility to be able to help the people around us when they ask us questions about the field of our interest and and. That's where I think that we learned from our things to be still today learned from from our our experiences and we continue to we have to that there is no choice.

34:31.39

wongga

Yeah, no I I tend to agree. Um I mean learning and continual learning is important otherwise you get stale and then you become non-relevant. Um, So so let me ask you this. How do you keep your axe sharp I mean. How do you gather knowledge and improve what do you do.

34:50.31

Rafiq Punjani

So I for the for the most part of my life I always thought books are not for me I could never read more than few pages I will dose off. Um I could not read and and that's why i. I lost a lot of my time just believing that because I cannot read and then I stumbled upon audible audio books right? I think it's ah it's a few years old thing and but I'm glad that it came in my lifetime because that has changed the direct the trajectory of my learning so now. What I do is when I go for a long walk. Um, my. My exercise regime is walking I don't like weights that's or I don't like running that's like that's too much anything is too straineous is too much for me so I like long walks and when I go for a long walk I think my more motive is more to listen to my audible book. Then actually to walk so walk is a byproduct of when I'm trying to consume my my book and sometimes I'll go for a 3 hour walk on an average I go for an hour walk and I'll listen to my books and that could range from. Ah um, anything from emotional development to. World affairs to financial and business planning and I sometimes feel that every new book ah connects the dots more like a book which I read three years ago I only knew so much. But in past three years I have learned so much more that if I read the same book again. I'll get.

36:17.63

Rafiq Punjani

More sense out of it if it if it makes sense. So um, yeah I listen to everything you know, um from from geography very recently I read a phenomenal book prisoners of geography and that has that has become among the top 5 ah books I've ever read. Um, you know, highly recommended written in 2015 where the author already already said Russia will invade yourk Ukraine and yeah in 2015 if somebody would have said that or wow really why do you say that? but but that happened right in 2022 and you know when you read a book like that where the author had that kind of an insight and he gives you 10 other insights now you listen. Now you listen more intently because what he's saying may also happen right? So yeah I think so reading is one way I also really enjoy my chats. Get it when I when I go for my business meetings. It's not too much. How can I get another client like you know we have gone few times garret. You know that? um, we both ask open-ended questions try to learn from each other right? What's going on in your business. What's going on in my business. What are you doing to improve it. You know, have you made a new friend or how do you do networking these days like you know learning just like I'm i'm.

37:32.96

Rafiq Punjani

I'm reading the book which Garrett would have written you know and listening to podcasts is is another way of doing that and I'm I'm glad that your audience are doing that right now.

37:40.80

wongga

Yeah, no, you touched on something you know you're you're doing self-care at the same time that you're doing self-improvement I Love Audiobooks I spent a lot of time in the car and if I'm not catching up on sales calls or or dealing with my clients I put an audiobook on and and sometimes to be honest. Sometimes it's just fiction because late at night I Just want to hear about something that's not real life. You know So That's that's where I that's where I go? Um, but yeah I mean.

38:05.19

Rafiq Punjani

I Love it.

38:12.50

wongga

For for productivity and your life. What what would you say? you've removed from your life That's made you more productive.

38:21.31

Rafiq Punjani

Hing.

38:26.57

Rafiq Punjani

I think watching Tv is 1 thing which we used to binge watch a lot and I think that it's not purposefully. We have stopped watching Tv which has made us more productive I think we have signed up. A lot more things which to be honest, doesn't allow me that much time to watch Tv I still watch some um, but but now I sit on 3 different boards I have ah um I have founded a not-for- profit. Group to help older rattles in Winnipeg It's it's three years and and 4 actually fourth year running now. Um I volunteer on ah 2 different organizations to mentor ambassador to become the canadian ambassador. For new immigrants. Um, so you know stuff like that that takes a lot of my time over the weekends I also volunteer at my mos. Um, you know I think ah I think I ah I remember that you know when we were I was at ernest and young and managers. We all of us I was one of the managers and. V managers had a thing. We said if you want to give a task and you go outside in the staff area never give task to somebody who is sitting idle give the task with somebody who's already very busy because the person who is busy. There is a reason why he is busy. Somebody has given him task and the person is actually doing it right now.

39:51.43

Rafiq Punjani

And they will do it more responsibly and the person who is not doing and sitting idle right now there is a reason why he is sitting idle and I took it to my heart I Always tried to be very very busy now because I think it's good for my mental health I think it's good for um.

40:07.59

Rafiq Punjani

My family my my society like you know Canada has given me so much and I think the least I can do for Canada is to to volunteer a little bit of my time right? and ah sitting on few boards. Whatever I have learned in my life adding value to those organizations because these are all not-for-profit organizations. And I think ah we owe it to we owe it to our our countries if if your listeners are from a different country wherever you are at whatever society you are in I think strong civic societies hold our elected officials in check, we will not be able to. Even question them if we are not educated to the grassroot challenges of what our societies are and to be honest in in for example in Canada right now older adults and senior care is a huge challenge and and that's very close to my heart seeing my grandparents going through that journey and I want to do more about that I want to. Educate people I want to make our officials in line with the needs and if I don't sit on boards. How can I do that so many people complain about government is not doing anything but they don't do anything about that either. We are the system and we have to be part of the civic society. Strong civic society strong country.

41:24.63

wongga

Yeah, no I couldn't agree more It's higher purposes is is really what drives us and I don't watch a lot of Tv either because I keep myself so busy and I think. Life balance that you have is is admirable. You know you're busy guy a couple businesses you still find time to go to go for a walk and keep healthy. Um, so before we wrap up. Um I ask every guest on this question and I'd like to hear what you have to say so this is the win podcast. How do you define success and what does winning look like for you.

42:14.11

Rafiq Punjani

For me the balance between my physical and my spiritual life is very important. So if I am unable to keep that balance it means. Even if I am the richest person I think I have failed so I have to find that balance so so for me I wake up every morning at 4 am I've been doing it for or five years now ah and that's my morning meditation time and that's a spiritual meditation and I do that for 90 minutes um I go to my mosque every day at at least I try I would say twenty nine days out of thirty days in the evening. So my my day starts with spirituality my day ends with spirituality and in the middle of the day I work hard. But if I do both these things at the end of the day when I when I go to bed. I feel that I have kept that balance and I think it also keeps me grounded because there are times when we have a successful day and at times. Ah we we humans feel that it's all because of me and you know when I when I'm trying to connect to the higher powers I feel that it's not me only yes we. It's our job to work hard. Um, but you know, um as they say the department of results does not lie with me so my job. My I am department of hard work and department of results is is somewhere else and if I get those results I should be able to say. Thank you I should be able to have at least time.

43:48.87

Rafiq Punjani

Think about it so that I can say thank you and if I am so busy that I don't have time to even think about it. How will I find time to say Thank you So now for me the win is if I have balance between my physical and spiritual life.

44:03.68

wongga

I love it I love it. You know, um I ask this question a lot and it is pretty rare when somebody says the amount of dollars in my bank you know, um I think we're all ah similar in that way. Well Rafiq I'd I'd like to really thank you for um for.

44:11.14

Rafiq Punjani

Fifth 1

44:19.58

wongga

For spending this time with me and our and our audience and I know you're a busy guy and yeah I can't thank you enough I Really appreciate it.

44:29.28

Rafiq Punjani

And I must say Thank gar the the kind of content you are creating. Um, this is the kind of content that changed my life and I'm sure that you are changing many lives. So thank you for that? Wonderful! Thank you Sir bye.

44:36.71

wongga

All right? Well we'll catch up with you later you take care.

44:47.66

wongga

Wow. Well you certainly nailed it that that was awesome. Oh you crushed it. You know what would really? ah right at the beginning. Um I really should have touched on it. What what? Really? what? really you know, stood out to me was I wrote it down when you talked about.

44:51.20

Rafiq Punjani

Um, is it. Okay, good.

45:03.83

wongga

Building a business and the amount of time it takes to build a business. Why not just build a scalable business because so many people they they build themselves a job. Um, and and you've lived it and you've pivoted because I think that was a pivot at the very beginning too. You know you're.

45:20.50

Rafiq Punjani

Yeah, you're right.

45:22.72

wongga

You know you have this big book and and what are you going to do you hire more accountants and try to build it that way and I know people do, but it's difficult so you decided to go into something else that's scalable.

45:36.75

Rafiq Punjani

Yeah, it it worked for ah for us and I am glad that you asked that question I'm glad it came out that way because I have spoken about that few times and I knew that that is something which has helped me and your questions were very spot on good job. You know you have nailed it the whole process as well.

45:53.27

wongga

You know what? I um I wasn't sure how this is going to go I mean I know that I'm I'm okay on camera but it's solo all the time I listen to a lot of podcasts. There's a few that I really respect the interviewers because there's so.

45:53.49

Rafiq Punjani

Ah, done.

46:01.43

Rafiq Punjani

Yeah.

46:09.33

wongga

Eloquent and they asked such good questions and I was trying to think how can I imitate that so this whole process that you've now experienced from me asking you you know, um to to be on the podcast to preparing you with questions. Um, you know the the Callan Lee everything that's that's all ah I've developed the process for it and and you know I've only done about 4 or 5 of these but every single episode is really really I think it's really really good like we haven't published anything yet because they. My podcast production company wants me to get you know a good 5 or 10 of these so that I'm not behind the curve because my intention is to release one every week so we're probably going to be you know doing this well maybe middle of December or maybe even we'll wait till the new year for January because I'm also going to be starting a new Instagram profile. Um, because as you know I told you that I'm I'm trying to branch out back to my my first love which is real estate investment. Yeah, not necessarily property management. Um.

47:10.40

Rafiq Punjani

Investment. Yeah.

47:15.76

wongga

And yeah, so you know getting capital Partners you know doing some flips and just getting getting down at the weeds for renovations. Um, that's going to become fun for me because ah.

47:27.90

Rafiq Punjani

Know you you do? ah you do a great job of of interviewing because you are honestly you are. You're a very personable person per se like you you are that person you are not becoming personable only for the sake of becoming a host for a podcast or even when you are meeting with somebody.

47:39.88

wongga

A.

47:44.59

Rafiq Punjani

You are generally listening. You are generally listening processing and asking the right question. Not only you, you are not a person who usually comes to a meeting with a script right? And that's what we are doing here right? So 1 thing which which I learned after many many. Ah, interviews which you are you are nailing already is that I started asking questions about I use the word feeling I try to use the word feeling I say how do you feel about it and feeling is a word which is so subjective and it it has so many different levels. But if you make a million box and. And you know the other person makes a million box and you you say how do you feel after this and their answers will be on completely 2 different spectrums because of the history they have because of the mission they have because of what they want to achieve so as soon as they open up the word. What do you? How do you feel after doing this and the word feel opens up a very emotional conversation because now audience connect to that feeling people may not have a million dollar but they still have the same feelings and and they they connect to the interview at a totally different level because and I didn't even realize that.

48:44.64

wongga

Here.

49:01.20

Rafiq Punjani

I Actually did it just like that one day and somebody wrote me a method saying that the way the speaker was sharing their feelings I connected with I said Wow Okay, let me try to use that and then I I use it more often and that worked really well so your your process is awesome. Wonderful I Loved it.

49:16.39

wongga

Oh that's good. No I Yeah I I guess it's instinctual because I'm I'm just the questions I'm asking I want the audience to identify on that level I never thought about it as from a point of feelings. But you're right? Um, and what we're building here are hopes and dreams for people right? and every guest.

49:32.64

Rafiq Punjani

Ah.

49:34.23

wongga

Trying to be very purposeful of who I invite Obviously they have to be eloquent. They have to be a good speaker if if possible. Um, but also the experience that they bring because it's It's really about learning.

49:44.78

Rafiq Punjani

Love it all right? Sir I'll take you leave black Friday I have some family duties to take people to malls. So I'll take your leave once it is published. Let me know I'll promote audit as well.

49:53.56

wongga

Okay, no, and I hope I can make it a win for you. We talked a little bit about Anna go in there so when we're ready to do that I'll ask for some you know, graphics and things like that and my social media team will also do the appropriate tags all right, take care. Ah, bye bye.