00:00.39

wongga

All right I'm gonna clap 4 times.

00:08.45

wongga

Okay, welcome to the podcast today I have a good friend and co-conspirator Mark Ting on the line here and we're gonna be hanging out talking for about half hour forty five minutes Mark how are you.

00:22.16

Marc Ting

I'm good. How is everyone today. Thank you for inviting me to your podcast.

00:25.70

wongga

Oh it's my pleasure. My honor been meaning to have you on for a while and really super excited to get going here and hear what you have to share with our investor community. Um, let's just start with the basics. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself. You know what's your story.

00:40.14

Marc Ting

Yeah, for sure I'll try not to make it too boring for everybody but you know like typical what was brought up in a middle class family. Both my parents they worked in a medical laboratory growing up I guess at that time we just lived a simple life like we had the necessitys. So. But nothing more so and I was never taught much about managing my finances or investing so I sort of learned that the hard way in my adult years I mismanaged my funds have student loans and credit and really the only way for me to get out of this mess was to experience it and go through it. So I guess you can say that's like a school of hard knocks. For me to understand through the process when I finished school I had taken sales jobs pretty much any from direct sales to door to door sales call center sales. Whatever it was just to get the experience of being able to talk to more people pretty much understanding. Sales process the pitches and being a very good mirror matchch to certain people and so I really enjoy cars. That's one of my big hobbies that I enjoy and I thought you know what? Why do I get it to the car industry. So I worked at a car dealership for a few years crazy enough. Um I enjoyed it. It was a really good. Experience for sure. It ah it definitely gives you that hunger of mentality because you're pretty much commission based only so you know you're you're pretty much forced to to make sales. Otherwise you don't make any income and eventually at that point I saw an opportunity working corporate so I worked for a company called auto trader.

02:15.29

Marc Ting

Their head office in a topicical which is in Ontario and that time it was a great job. Pretty stable I found it very kind of structured like so if you're into that but you know at same time I enjoyed being there and my wife and I moved to Winnipeg. So. Ah, crazy, but people are wondering why you put you moved to Winnipeg from Toronto right? So we had an opportunity here. My wife was able to pursue her medical residency. So we came here to to live here for to to have a base here and at that time I had like a whole opening to like what career path should I take. You know now it's like a fresh start right? So I was chinking really hard like what would be a good opportunity for me here and one day I was just driving my wife to to school and I hear this radio ad you know about a real estate company. You know if you were interested into investing and so on so forth. So I called in. And I did a 2 day seminar with them and ah and you know it led to me getting a coaching package pretty much but this company was based out of the us so they were at that time they were just trying to build their a market share here in Canada and you know, ah it was good. Yeah, we had a lot of learning materials. Get to read a lot of that throughout the course of their their whole program and we had 3 to 4 coaching sessions which was really good I mean they they gave you some good insights and all that the big problem when you join a coaching program that's outside of Canada so this was the us base.

03:49.87

Marc Ting

They don't have really good pulse on the market. So if I spoke to them about um, seeing James Street or you know if I talked about river heights like they had no idea where it was so I wasn't getting that much coaching from them and at that point I was like you know I need to find a local coach to really help me out and you know I i. Going through different coaching academies and I found Nelson ka he was my first coach he was from teammate real estate and he helped me get my first deal in 16 it was a duplex in the west end and from there I grew my knowledge and as a real estate investor and started to acquire different types of real estate. Find it very important to expanding network and connect with more people and you never know what type of interactions you can get from from meeting and joining these real estate masterminds. So that's pretty much how I really started was you know being curious and just giving it. Like ah I guess you could say all or nothing mentality and I didn't want to fail so I just kept going that's kind of my so my short story. So.

04:54.94

wongga

Wow Wow! It's interesting. You mentioned about coaching you know there's There's a lot of coaches out there. Some good some bad some support some don't but I think we can all agree that I kind of and I'm going to probably have ah ah an entire podcast on coaching.

05:10.98

Marc Ting

Yeah.

05:12.29

wongga

But from what I've always kind of looked at it. You could learn on your own but coaching seems to collapse time right? Would you agree with that.

05:21.83

Marc Ting

I correct 100 % you know I had this really? um, kind of fear mentality like you know it's like the the analysis parasis at that point when I was trying to get into real estate I didn't know much. And at that point I just kept overthinking everything and when I got a coach with me. It kind of helped me understand like okay you know what? you don't need to know everything all at once. Um, you need need to you know and you need to know enough but not everything and as you go through the process you're learning pretty quickly. So yeah I definitely believe in coaching is a. It's a good way to to start your real estate career and.

05:57.97

wongga

If you hadn't had a coach where do you think how far along. Do you think you'd be you think you would have made more mistakes.

06:05.47

Marc Ting

I definitely would make more mistakes I could see it because there are just so many traps into getting into real estate that unless someone tells you ahead of time. It's kind of like you're bound to to do it for example, like for buy and hold. But just what I started with you know, like just. Finding the right tenants. It's a huge It's a huge benefit to understand like how to search them how to profile them and make sure that you're doing your due diligence and you know sometimes yeah and all like you think you could do it. It looks very easy and I'm sure anyone could really find a tenant but the the difference between. Understanding the right process is that now you can vet them properly and and know that what you have is what type of 10 you have is for that particular property and not just bring anybody in just to fill a gap so it does help um other ways is like if you're getting into like flipping like myself.

07:00.28

Marc Ting

It makes you understand the processes to go which needs to go first this painting go before you know flooring or does the kitchen go There's so many different processes and if you just do things yourself and you would probably make a few mistakes by just not knowing. Which which order to go with. Yeah.

07:19.15

wongga

Yeah, excellent. So um, tell us about the operation. What does it look like today.

07:23.83

Marc Ting

Yeah, for sure for for me I've actually shifted to flips which is the buy renovate and sell strategy because you know during the last two years let's see so. Time there was a shortage of of houses for sale and I thought that the opportunity would be to start getting into more aggressive into flipping although I do have 1 tools as well. But you know with real estate What's great about it is is you're able to kind of. Different directions just depending on what the current market is is asking for and at that time flipping is definitely my my go to and then now um considering the rate have been going up pretty high I've decided to kind of take a halt on my flipping and go back to the buy hal strategy. Or the birth strategy which is sort of um for me I think would be the safer bet during this time when there'll be a lot of people looking for rent due to some people just can't afford to buy a house at the moment. So my strategy is pretty much on the buy andhole side. Current current date of the operations as I'm just pretty much managing and operating right now. All my rentals I was just at my apartment building yesterday fixing a little leak there in the shower and you know sometimes it does get tiring. Um I am a owner operated I'm not big enough to to have.

08:57.26

Marc Ting

A full time property management to watch my stuff but I do see that in the future. But as my day-to-day I'm just pretty much overlooking the business making sure that my books are good and that um, all my tenants are happy and if I was doing any flipping projects is that I oversee all The. Project management side of it and making sure all my trades are doing their work but otherwise it's a pretty open day pretty much anything really happens when you're a full time investor.

09:24.30

wongga

Awesome! So I just heard you say you went to an apartment block to take a look at something. Did you fix that yourself or is that just kind of taking a look so that you can get a contractor in there.

09:34.16

Marc Ting

It is a little bit further out. It's about 40 minutes from the away from the city. So I did bring one of my maintenance guys with me just to save time and when I did we definitely was able to fix the issue right away so it was more of just condensation. You know with. The cold water and and during the summertime it was hot so the water was dripping so we just put some installation in there and just keep an eye on it but it should be fine.

10:00.61

wongga

Okay, so it's interesting because anybody who's listening that's in real estate whose experience knows that it's smart to diversify right? And that's exactly what you're doing I mean market's hot. Okay, let's flip interest rates right now at least you know we're our october. 2022 interest rates seem to be going up almost on a weekly basis. Interest rates go up people can't afford mortgages which means they're not going to be buying houses which means there's more people that are going to be going back to the rental market which is why you just said, you're going back to ah, you're buying holds. But um.

10:20.99

Marc Ting

Thank you.

10:37.56

wongga

I'm really interested in the in the context of learning and for our audience just about flipping you know, ah maybe breakdown flipping in the simplest components for us.

10:42.49

Marc Ting

Yeah, yeah for sure. Um, so it really for me like what got me to getting into flips was really building up more cash reserves. Um, so with flipping its active income so you definitely can see that cash faster. Um, as long as you're making profit of course and then reinvesting that into long-term assets like multifamily rentals but typically the way I look at my flips is you know we obviously look for distressed um properties. For me I choose single family and I prefer bungalows. That's one of the things that I like to invest in is just a 2 or 3 bedroom and when and have 2 bathrooms usually is what I find I get it through like private deals or maybe my online marketing and I usually purchase these between 50 to ¢60 on the dollars. So. You know it's 1 thing so important with buying flips. Is you know you need to understand you know your airvs. Um, as as pretty much as is and as finished so that you know you have a better understanding. You know how to take this particular property and the type of renovation to do. And typically my renovations take between 3 to six months from start to finish so just pretty much in a nutshell for.

12:00.52

wongga

So is there any project. You won't take on following that 50 to ¢60 I mean where do you draw that line foundations. You know things like that.

12:12.14

Marc Ting

So you know this is probably gonna be a question. You're gonna ask later but you know one of the biggest mistakes that I made into flipping was really, um, not understanding completely the area that I'm doing the flips I think it's super important that you need to you. Know the pulse of that market whether you're Goingnna do flips in North end or you're gonna do in the south end or wherever it is you decide that you really need to understand that the of the way that the flip should be done is dictated to the area that you're gonna sell it up. so yeah so I put

12:43.75

wongga

So you're talking about the level of renovations.

12:48.68

Marc Ting

Correct yes, and also when you know what I kind of prefer a more simpler flip at the moment like as I kind of grew into this flipping strategy I am taking more challenging projects like add-ons like a secondary suite. But. For me I find the sweetest type of flip is something just really simple that you can do a lot of value add to it and you know you don't need. It's not really rocket science. It's just more of like just understanding your numbers and you know knowing what it costs you to to get this renovation what the cost for labor. The cost of material and. And having good contractors that will really meet their deadline but at the end of the day like I just keep it really simple when it comes to flips I try not to take on a really hard project because for me I'm more about just consistently producing. Same quality of products and I want it to be done in a fast manner and I don't want it to be held for six or twelve months when I can do 2 to 3 flips within that time frameme so you know it's it's more just hitting more base hits than always on home run. That's how I look at it.

13:58.76

wongga

Okay, so the slow ah slow dime slow nickel versus versus the fast dime as as they say so in terms of um, you could say simple flips. We're just talking what paint and carpet and flooring what about Kitchens and bathrooms.

14:03.70

Marc Ting

Yeah, yeah.

14:12.60

Marc Ting

Yeah, for sure. So yeah for me I when I look at a flip I definitely do need to consider replacing the bathroom and kitchen I think those are the 2 most valuable areas to get the best dollar for for your.

14:14.52

wongga

Or is that ah like an automatic in flip.

14:30.80

Marc Ting

For your renovation. It's just that sometimes just depending on the type of flip that you do, um I just find it that you you can keep but a certain design aspect to your flips to give you a little bit of a signature in the and real estate market. So they know like this is to the type of flip that you that you do so. Typically keep the same colors I don't change it up a lot unless you know it's something that needs to change. Otherwise I keep the same is also cheaper for me when I buy the materials and everything but typically flooring painting bathroom kitchen um, a lot of times to the mechanical side I try to keep it newer as well. Um, if it's too old I replace it and exterior if it can be power wash. Great if not, we just pretty much get it repainted and if there's any stockle work and now all that stuff we can redo that again and make the house look way more updated but at the end of the day we just want to make the house shine again and come ah out from its. Few years of a distressed look and and make it very livable for somebody and we keep we keep our properties pretty clean and we we take pride of what we do. So we make sure that we you know we change what we need to change and we don't take shortcuts. We we really want to give the best part of.

15:45.20

wongga

Yeah I think um, that's interesting about the shortcut thing I mean we all hear horror stories. Um and know of people in the industry who try to take those shortcuts. What would you say is the risk of that. How can it come back and and bite them.

16:00.20

Marc Ting

So ah, you know I think the biggest thing is and I and I talk to other investor friends of mine that you know we have different flipping strategies I'm not saying that doing my way is the best way. But I just know deep down inside that I have a I. Put out a good product and I'm not worried to get something coming back to me and saying oh well, you guys didn't do it properly but taking shortcuts can hurt you in the long term. What I mean by that is that even if the owner the new owner takes possession of the property and you know they find out that you know you didn't pull a permit on this. And this work and then things start going crazy in the basement water is draining and everything and you know technically titled insurance could come after you and pay for those damages Even after the fact someone has purchased it So It's just a big like peace of mind that you did what you have to do. And you know that if something does arise and you know sometimes it will then you take ownership to it but knowing that you're doing everything for the best interests for yourself and the new owners. It's It's a easier way to do business and you're not going to be like trying to worry about things catching up to you down the road.

17:11.11

wongga

Hundred percent um as you know I'm I'm doing some flips too and a lot of my flips um are purpose built. They're done to flip quality. But I place a tenant in them and I sell them to my current clients in my property management company.

17:23.93

Marc Ting

Amazing.

17:25.88

wongga

And that's very long- term right? I mean that's not just a a random owner that comes after you later this is like a maintenance item that I could have fixed and if I choose not to it's going to come back and bite me later because the person is going to go well, you sold me this house. How come this wasn't fixed at the beginning. So I 100 % agree with you. You just. Do it right? and try to be a good person about it and everything even if you have to take a a little bit of a loss on your profit. Um it all evens out in the end right.

17:52.80

Marc Ting

Yeah I Totally agree with you from my my experience but Flipping. You know if you keep a good quality product. It also gives you recognition in the market when people buy your your properties are like oh you know this is the company that made this and. Over time that hard work pays off like people will now put a brand to you and look at you differently because they know that you're you're putting the best foot forward and not trying just to to always look for a bigger profit at the End. So I mean at the end of the day we want to make profit 100% but I Want to do in the way that I know that I'm not trying to screw someone in the back.

18:27.77

wongga

Yeah, for sure and then let's let's ah, move on to now the project is done. Um, what's your thoughts on things like time of year to sell staging best. Best practices to get something sold. How do you?? How do you?? Um position your your assets that way.

18:46.47

Marc Ting

Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's a very good question I usually like to obviously I would definitely advise to stage your flip if you are going to flip I think it just gives a different ambiance to the place when people can see what it could look like with furniture. But another thing that. But flip will allow you to do is you know it. It gives you that pride like for you to show your your stuff to the world. You can use that as your marketing as well. But the big thing that I find is I set up my marketing sooner before my realtors actually start selling. Only because you know I also have a market of investors I have a market of friends that are in my area that know that this is what I do for a living so I I definitely tried to put it out there and give like sneak peeks just to show them the interest like hey you know we're working on this. This is what's going on right now. You know, stay stay tuned and it helps kind of give out a little bit of you know extra marketing before the realtors start doing their thing and not all the time and it's so important to find a good realtor. That's very active in social media because that's what most people are going to look at these days the social media or you know. Mls is big I sell my properties on mls you know I've tried selling privately before which worked well too. But I just find that like I rather move on to the next project than like be the one to do most of the work and if you have a good relationship with your realtor and they know how you work and how how things.

20:22.58

Marc Ting

That they do make it important for you to choose them because they're they're that expert per se for for selling houses then the relationship is good and they can pretty much do it on their own without you being there but really staging it getting getting like getting the marketing in place the sooner the better. So you can get more people interested in it once it's there start blasting it off too like even though realtors are doing their work. You should be out there doing it and helping them and people say why? why? because you know you're paying them for all this cash well at the end of the day. The bottom line still goes to you. And any help possible to to have to sell the property. It's always the best way I find that there's no such thing as like not enough marketing right? So we could. We could definitely use that. Lastly I say probably both try to get. Maybe um, open house once a week for the first few weeks for sure. So at least a Saturday or a Sunday I think people prefer Sunday more than Saturdays and the reason why is people are more at home on Sundays and family days. So once they kind of go from. Like whether they enter the mall or from church or whatever you say you know let's let's go out and and look at look at houses. But really at the end of the day. It's just keeping it consistent. Maybe having a list of things and and jotting them down to make sure that you're really meeting those.

21:51.92

Marc Ting

Those ways of getting your property sold and at the end of the day I mean it's also dictating the market right? So the time of year is also very important I mean if I wasn't sell a property now I probably wouldn't be very optimistic about it considering it's November and then December's coming up. Although there' is still a market of people buying but it just gets very less and at this time of year. It's it's kind of like the end of the cycle. So I would prefer to sell it probably around springtime and summer is's probably my strongest points but you can sell it all year round. It's just that for me if I was to choose. Beginning with spring would be maya I go that would be around June would be a good time may June then from there on but try not to sell it pass October if if possible.

22:40.94

wongga

So that's interesting because sometimes we can't dictate these things right? So let me ask you a question more of a so let's let's say that you had some kind of delay right? Um, or you you just had a property that you just couldn't couldn't You couldn't say no.

22:43.61

Marc Ting

Correct.

22:49.40

Marc Ting

Um, yeah.

22:55.91

Marc Ting

Um, yeah.

22:58.43

wongga

Right? Just too good of a deal. So now you're you're getting it ready and all of a sudden. It's it's ready in December Fifteenth would you hold it and pay those holding costs to make sure that you take care of the spring market or would you try to sell it like where where is the cost benefit there.

23:12.23

Marc Ting

Good. That's a very very good question I actually just went through that situation on one of my flips in River Heights It was ready around January and I held it till spring and yeah and I'm so glad I made that decision. You know, sometimes it's.

23:23.24

wongga

You did. Okay.

23:31.98

Marc Ting

You know you could obviously test the market and the way I say by testing the market is like maybe before it goes on mls. You know you could possibly have it listed ah privately or put it somewhere else just to see if people are actually I put it on your social media and see if there's people biting but you know for me I i. If you're that close you're in ready in December January and you know that in springtime or at least you can buy by your comps and by by the faith of of your numbers that you know that by by March April it's gonna be this amount and if your numbers can still keep going till that I would wait til selling. Spring nas soa be like that's crazy. You know why would you spend that much money but it depends on the flip like on my flip there. it's it's a high-end flip. You know I bought it for 320000 I put 170000 in there and then and January was ready and I said I don't think anyone's buying January. Everyone's broke from Christmas. So I really just kept the two months of holding cars put it up and I believe we put it up in the and so March but three months holding car and it was it sold for 600 so it was a it was a good It was a good profit you and worth the way but that it's not gonna happen all the time.

24:44.84

wongga

So definitely worth it. Yeah because you can also get no and I mean there's no crystal ball. But I mean it's It's the experience that you have that's ah that's really coming in for that right? Um I was going to ask This is ah.

24:49.52

Marc Ting

Ah.

25:02.40

wongga

Just taking a little bit of a side question here Arvs after renovated value. Um, so important when you're evaluating flips. Um, where do you like? are you doing this on your own are you getting some realtor are you getting more than one opinion. How are you working that.

25:15.32

Marc Ting

Yeah, good question there too. What I do with the after repair value is I get 3 it's kind of weird but I get 3 people to give it to me because I think the more numbers I get the easier for me to. To be sure about this I get my realtor to give it to me for sure I get my appraiser so I sometimes I even pay $300 just to get it araise on my own just so I know what it's what they think it's worth before I sell it so that it gives me a better idea like okay, well if he thinks it's around this much. I think I can push it a little bit but and the third one would be on my own so my own research there's a website I go to that I check one of the current values for these houses and I find it pretty accurate and with all 3 comparables I'm I'm pretty sure pretty close to. So what I think would be the after we care about you.

26:11.39

wongga

So but that's that's as you're deciding the selling price right? Like what I'm talking about is pre-purchase. You've got something tied up and in due diligence you have to decide.

26:16.58

Marc Ting

Um, yeah, oh okay.

26:26.65

wongga

Based on your estimates right? because you're not, you're not getting actual quotes or some people are able to tie it up to get actual quotes but I'm assuming like most people you're getting an estimate based on your experience of what you think it's going to cost based on no hidden things and building in contingencies. But that number that you're you know that Arv.

26:26.69

Marc Ting

Um, yeah.

26:46.48

wongga

Nobody really knows that could be in 6 or 6 or seven months where are you getting that number from because that's the buying decision right.

26:52.14

Marc Ting

Yeah, true and that's like pretty much a big hurdle for most of us is getting through that I you know for me I I look at 2 things when it comes to that I definitely ask my realtors for comparables and the second thing is I have to do my own due diligence and I look into. But I think it's worth and when I say that is like I'll call wholesalers or I'll call um you know people that I know that invested in that area and say hey like how much did you purchase this for you know, give me an idea like you know and that way at that point you now have a little bit of better ballpark for what it should be worth. Realtors. Unfortunately they you know they're pretty vague with their search. Although you could definitely tighten it. But it's not to the very t so. At this point you're just trusting your own decision making at the end of the day and and and how you put forward with this number. But. Gotta have faith and you need to know the area. That's why it's so important like I told your area in this call like having the pulse in the market. Not think if if I was just only focusing on you know, um, high in areas I see. It's also benefits to see no river highestqueston wood and then I go into north that all of a sudden. And then I'm like oh well, you know if I'm not a master of that area if I'm not very familiar with it. It's going to be tricky to to actually come up with that number and see am I actually making the right decision to buying it at this price and people say well you can just look at it is like you know.

28:20.13

Marc Ting

But look at the past sales within the last year or song kid told me like well now the neighbor is sold for this much I keep it very conservative I obviously try to get it within theta six fifty sixty cents on the dollar of what I think the airv will be and then that's the number I'm going to play with if it goes way more and it's too tight I just let it go It's not worth it for me to to make um like in time is money right? So if you're going to spend three months on it and you're only going to make you know x amount of dollars and it's kind of like tight and depending on what the mark will be like six seven months down the road. It's not worth it. Um, so it's really just a little bit of forecasting and just kind of. Knowing your numbers about them.

28:59.59

wongga

Yeah, agree, 100 % again you know I think a lot of people make mistakes they don't factor in their time and they just look at the numbers. They don't factor in either. Well I mean the worst ones I've seen is. They don't factor in their time and they're actually trying to do the work themselves I've seen a few few people that have made mistakes that way and not only are they now coming up against you know by the time you you put one hundred two hundred hours into a project when you're swinging the hammer. They're probably making minimum wage not to mention it's probably taking them double.

29:31.31

Marc Ting

Um, very much.

29:33.72

wongga

The amount of time compared to hiring a pro. Um, so yeah that that time factor very important. Um, you mentioned some mistakes and things. What are some mistakes that you've experienced flipping or that you see other peoplely industry making.

29:47.54

Marc Ting

Um, yeah, definitely the biggest mistake that I've experienced and I do see people like for the first time flippers is kind of going over budget. That's so a big one is just not really knowing the cost of material and labor and. And just kind of like going with a flow and not having a scocal isopal work to to look at like what needs to be done and you know it's it's pretty clear that like meaning is painting but some people don't see it as that like someone can call you $5000 on the same pink job another that could do for 35 and it's it's just really like the same for like that. It's going to look the same the matter who does it but who does it within a $50 because it's a contractor or doing it a twenty five thirty dollars because you know this is somebody that you you you trust that can do pretty much the same work so you just It's so easy to kind of like have everybody do the work for you. But it's so important that you kind of know really what is the amount. Um I guess the differences of it. You know? So if it's if it's work to be done and you know that it's a kitchen is going to be worth about 8 to 12000 and and. And you're getting quotets for 20000 and you think that's kind of like okay price and you go with it and you're not really going around and getting and getting polls from other people is's just going to cost you a lot of yeah and that's where the profit goes is. It's just not mismanaging your budget. The second thing would probably be just hired in the contractors.

31:16.29

Marc Ting

Finding the ones that really will follow your scope of work and meeting the deadline and that's the thing. It's like how do you find with like contractor like like and you're going to go through this conversation down the road to in your podcast. But for me, it's like you need to have someone that you either worked with before or if you haven't worked. Trust. Someone that comes from a reliable source that they've worked with them to try them out and not saying that they're not going to make mistakes. It's just that if someone's already recommended them to you usually if that person is you know somebody that's credible. Won't probably just give you anybody because it's also their name that's going to get hurt at the end of the day if you something goes wrong with the project. So those are the 2 main ones. Its just kind of like over budgeting and just choosing the right contractors would be like the main issues most people will go through starting startinging the fliping business.

32:06.42

wongga

Yeah, for sure I know that a lot of contractors out there and price is not the most important thing sometimes somebody will come in low trying to get the job and then they're just tacking it in with some of their other ones and all of a sudden you're.

32:24.48

Marc Ting

Um, yes.

32:25.80

wongga

You know way over the time budget right? Not not the budget itself and that's still holding costs and extra money.

32:30.12

Marc Ting

I experienced that too where you know I did find someone like a little bit cheaper and then someone who's you know, super efficient, but his price is like up there and you have to say like well this this project I have a deadline of three months so if you know that. And if this person that you know can get it within that time frame and his work is good and you're paying a little bit more but you know that you know he's within that frame of time and I would do it because you know if you miss that boat of selling it from that month that I told you earlier that could make a difference of tens of thousands depending on the situation. But if if you if you get the right people do it within the right timeframe then get it to the market right away. It's more beneficial for you because you have more time to sell the house. Yeah.

33:18.30

wongga

Yeah, or missing that that ultimate window right? May June July so so if you take your latest flip. You've done and compare to their very first one. How would you say. Obviously it's going to look a little bit different. You've learned a lot but what are those lessons that you can impart upon our audience.

33:36.95

Marc Ting

Difference now I'm more all open to trying challenging projects that require a little bit more expertise like I said earlier like the secondary suite add-ons and stuff like that compared to my first flip where I just wanted like lipstick work meaning that just keeping the original layout and making it look better.

33:57.42

Marc Ting

Lessons I've learned is just you got to pivot during you know market conditions if the market is tough. You have to stick through it at the end and it's such a situation on what would be the best financial decision to make at that point. That's why I like real estate so much. There are multiple strategies to choose from. So you know, just learning. You're gonna learn more as you go. That's just the typical nature of things but you just I just learned to take on more challenges slowly just to see how far that I'm willing to go but from the first flip it was just more of just you know. Keeping it simple and and and when once you have like for me preferably if you're doing a flip like I said earlier just look for like a bungalow eight hundred Thousand Square Feet free bedroom 2 bath. Keep it really simple. Just get the basics in there and once you've learned to like do that and you. Done it a few times and then move on to the otherwise you'll be okay I mean you know, no one said and even if I had a bungalow for that price at that size. It's still profitable because at the end of the day you're you're still able to do your research on how much money you're going to make it's just. Matter of how how soon can you get it done. You know.

35:13.50

wongga

Okay, so if you were to give 1 piece of advice to somebody who who's listening right now who's always wanted to flip what would that be.

35:23.41

Marc Ting

Okay, for first time flippers I would recommend to look for a joint venture partner who has experienced in a proven track record I think that's you can learn a lot from their mistakes and the same time you still make a decent profit. It's a win-win once you're comfortable to do it on your own. You know you're you're prepared. More to sort to handle certain situations. A lot better. So I definitely find it good good if you could find someone who's already done it a few times and kind of can walk through you the process walk through the process with you on your on your first flip that would be my recommendation.

35:58.81

wongga

Okay, great Stuff. Let's so let's transition to you as a person as you said your bio and anybody can see on social Media. You've done a lot in your life and you continue to do some really interesting things So I have to Ask. What's the craziest thing you've ever done before in terms of life experience your niche or framework.

36:20.15

Marc Ting

Wow I wasn't prepared for that question. Um, you know what? the craziest thing I think I've done so far was really.

36:36.25

Marc Ting

Which benefited me a lot I think is moving here to Winnipeg a lot of times I keep wanting to go back to Ontario and and see what opportunities will be there for me but I'm just glad I so I stayed here. It really opened up a lot of doors for me. It made me see. Um. Myself in a different manner that you know it. It gives me more confidence to know that like I have a good network of friends here like yourself and I have a good investor network to to rely on if I need any help and it's just really a community and you know the craziest thing is moving in a minus forty weather. Um. Ah, city but the benefit of it is that you know you have you have you have more more opportunity to make mistakes here and learn from it quicker and it's not going to cost you a shit a lot of money sorry to for my language but that would cost you a lot of money to to start something here and. I think that was ah that was a good move for us to stay here. So yeah.

37:38.18

wongga

Yeah, no I'm I'm asking ah some other questions because it's my podcast and I can but no so let let's talk. Let's ah expand on those experiences name and experience in your life That's shifted your thinking like more to a positive way.

37:44.33

Marc Ting

Um, ah.

37:51.70

Marc Ting

Oh well I had a lot of limiting beliefs growing up my parents got divorced when I was 15 and had a lot of kind of hate and blame growing up and. Resulted from I feel like at that time I was just making excuses and what really changed me and helped me was really going through some personal development. So I've joined a few personal development groups. But the biggest one that helped me a lot is. When I started doing Tony Robbins Tony Robbins was doing a few. Um he had something called unleashed the power within Upw and at that time it was done I believe in New York and then I went there and it was just kind of a good experience to. To be able to expand your mind a little bit and and know what are your limit me beliefs and how you can overcome it and at that time has so much stuff in my head that like just need to be answered and it helped me like understand it better like okay well this is what my parents reframed in my head like this is what they told me and. And I thought about it and I said you know what I could change my physiology I can change the way that I think and this is where like I started reading a lot more books and when I started reading it just made me realize like it doesn't matter what the pass is is what you do with the future and a lot of times we tend to forget like.

39:25.87

Marc Ting

Other stuff we grew up with is just what our family tells us or our our parents tells us. But if you look into yourself deeper and you find like a bigger why and understand that like a matter what it you're responsible and accountable for everything you do in life then it's your it's it's your duty to to to pretty much. Find ways to get out of whatever what you're in and make it better because no one else is going to help you and no one else is going to say oh well they will help you but not to that extent and and at the end of the day if you're not willing to help yourself. No one else would be willing to help you in so going through Tony Robbins really helped me and I actually started. Doing crewing for him where I was part of his team and I was reason being invited two days ago to be going to ah to Florida to to be 1 of his team members there to to organize the event and you know I think it's just bringing yourself out there. Um, a mindset is always. Ah, big thing that we we tend to work on and and going through these programs really to help and that's kind of how I got through certain things in life and it's helping me get through now and every day I just like to be around like-minded people that allows me to to grow and also allows me to like. Around people that are are either better than me or smarter than me so I can get to that level as well. So yeah.

40:46.20

wongga

I Think you've proven yourself to be quite at that level and it's it's obvious through a lot of self-learning and Self-awareness Um, what are some of the things you look for in a good entrepreneur or even the red flags that make a person a bad entrepreneur.

41:02.62

Marc Ting

Ah, that's a very yeah, it's a very good question here I think a good alter entrepreneur always looks for a win-win situation somebody that you know values relationship more than money and what I say that is. That we obviously need to make money to be profitable. But if you're in a real estate business especially like what we're in right now if you're just in it for the money you probably won't last very long because there's like there's times where you're you know it's not always going to be always making money There's gonna times where you're go to. And up losing money or just sign that you're maybe need of money and you're done. But if you're in it to build relationship. You're able to withstand certain situations because you know you're looking for it as a long term growth a lot meaning that if if if I had contractors with me that I knew that were very loyal and do the right work and. Obviously I could pay them less because that's what they think they're worth but if I know that this is somebody that I can build lot of relationships with down the road. It's the right thing for me to say like you know what? you guys said a great job. You met the fine here's a little bonus for that to keep them happy and the same time they know that you respect their value them and this is what I always say is even enjoyt venture. Um, you know agreements where you're you're going through like a hardship in 1 property because it wasn't selling and you're the managing partner and it eventually does sell but you guys are just pretty much break even or whatsoever. But I appreciate that person trusting in me that.

42:32.30

Marc Ting

They wanted me to succeed by lending me the money to to be able to do a flip or whatever it would be then at the end of the day I would say look I'll take the hit because it was my responsibility to make this deal go through and make profit and because it didn't you know this is just my way of saying here. Here's your money back plus a little bit more for your time and if I had to take a loss on that at least I know that deep done inside the person that I that trusted in me can say well you know what? Mark's a great guy because he he actually looked into more just just a money relationship but building relationship for future deals. And who knows like I don't burn bridges as much because I know that whoever it is that you talk to even if you have a bad experience with them. You might need them in the future for the weirdest thing and you just got to keep it civil but the end of the day you're accountable for your actions and for me the way I look at it is an entrepreneur should always look at it is. Relationships are more important if you put that first you'll be able to expand your business better. You can grow your team better and at the end your profit will still be there I mean I'm not saying that money is going to be lost because you're making all your he's too much of a nice guy. He's just giving money away. It's not about that. I believe that you know that when you want to keep people happy. You have to also spread the love around and if your friends are winning you and or if your're people that are in your trusted circle are winning then I feel that I'm winning to so that's just kind of my myself.

44:05.37

Marc Ting

Um, ah no I Actually ah hit the button here to I go my screen my screen referr.

44:06.20

wongga

What's ah, what's going on there I Just heard a ah lunch bunch of scrabbling was that.

44:17.28

wongga

Okay, can you? um maybe I heard there was a lot of interference over that last little bit there. It's I don't know whether you're touching the mic. Do you want to try to back up and maybe ah go back I don't know if you can.

44:20.76

Marc Ting

Um, sure. Yeah.

44:30.48

wongga

Think about even 30 seconds in the production company kind of stitch that together.

44:34.94

Marc Ting

Yeah, no problem I'll redo that again. Um, so what I was seeing at the end is is that I value relationships at the end more than just making money because I know down the road if I wanted to continue this business in real estate that it's important to have the right people. Um, in your team to make it succeed and you know if you're burning bridges everywhere you go because you know you're too tight on your budget on cash or whatever it is that you you're doing and it's ruining relationships around you most likely you're not going to.. You're not going to go far because this is a relationship building business as Well. And. The more the people around you are profitable and everyone gets to go home and feed their families. It's It's a good feeling that you're also responsible for that and to be able to have people around you that you know will have your back when you need them. So in my case I could entrepreneur I should understand that. You know it's looking for people that have good talent and and and recognizing that and keeping them loyal to you by offering them things to understand that like I appreciate you being with me throughout this time and they're just going to be there for you. So I feel like that's my experience so far with with dealing with certain situations. So. Being an entrepreneur is just keeping eye to relationships with everybody and and doing your best to make it a winwin situation.

45:56.57

wongga

Ah, excellent, Okay, well, um before I let you go I ask every guest this question and I'd like to hear what you have to say this is the win podcast. How do you Define success and what does winning look like for you.

46:11.20

Marc Ting

I Define success as being able to do what you enjoy and make a good living out of it for me, you're winning when everyone around you important to you is winning as well. So I'll keep it simple.

46:24.89

wongga

Nice, nice. Yeah, it's too true. It's so true I mean money isn't everything and and those who chase it quickly find that the most important things in their life might be gone and yeah I really love your your part about win-win you know I think that's ah, that's a motto I live by. And relationships are more important and the long term because otherwise you're going to find yourself without with it left with nothing at the end all right? Well I'd like to thank you Mark for hanging out with me here spending some time I'm sure our audience will love listening to this later.

46:46.61

Marc Ting

Um, so I agree hundred percent

47:00.79

wongga

And thanks for coming on the podcast.

47:01.51

Marc Ting

It was a pleasure and Garrett more success to you? My friend you're doing great things and I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing more people in your podcast and in your future thinker.

47:10.65

wongga

All right? Thanks Mark take care.