00:00.99

wongga

Hi audience my name is Garrett wag your host of the invest to win podcast I'm very pleased today to welcome a good friend and associate that I've known for quite a few years Derek ralstone Derek welcome.

00:13.49

Derek Rolstone

Thanks, very much for having me Garrett it's it's an honor to be on your show and happy to be part of invest to win.

00:22.59

wongga

Excellent, Well um, the audience. Um, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself. You know what's your story and your background.

00:31.30

Derek Rolstone

Sure? Yeah I'm ah I'm a human resource consultant I've been doing that for about Eight or nine years now I started my career in human resources working for for some big companies like Cargill and Pepsi and sun core energy and bell as a starting as an ah hr manager and then as an ah hr director I went a different route into academia ten years ago and was ah a prow or instructor at Red River college here in Winnipeg. My wife had encouraged me to go in that direction because after 20 years in ah hr she told me I needed a job where I wasn't getting yelled at as much so which which it was and it was great and I loved it and I loved teaching I found I had some free time in between classes and when some of my colleagues seemed to go for coffee a lot I thought maybe I could help some companies. Maybe there's companies not like the kind I work for but smaller companies like yours where they don't have an hr person but they need hr help and they don't want to call their lawyer and they don't want to call employment standards and so but they just might need some help. Maybe it's once a week maybe it's once a year

01:29.77

wongga

Here.

01:44.13

Derek Rolstone

And so I started working for some smaller organizations that maybe have 10 or 20 or 40 employees and and helping them out on a variety of hr things like search like maybe terminations maybe employee surveys do a lot of policy work. My ah, master's degree is in compensation. So I know a little bit about pay. So I'm able to use that and and help helping companies. So I had about 10 then I had maybe about 20 clients and then I had 30 and then all of a sudden I had to start saying no to a lot of stuff because the teaching was getting in the way. So five years ago I went full speed against my wife's wishes and and started stone h our strategies on a full time basis and we've never looked back and it's it's going. Well there's people always need ah hr healthcare care and you know that.

02:37.34

wongga

Well, you've helped us out quite a bit and it's Amazing. You know your business model and and your story there I find it fascinating that you you kind of did this in your spare time and you sprinkled water on it and all of a sudden it just kind of grew and. You were forced to make a choice I mean that's the best thing as an entrepreneur. It's a good thing.

03:00.98

Derek Rolstone

It's so Funny. You mentioned that because you know I did a master's degree in business right? I know a little bit about business planning and and that was part of the curriculum and I didn't do any of that Stuff. So Unlike some others that you'll talk to I'm sure that have a much more focused business Plan. You're right. I Kind of did it like I guess kind of like it to use the ah parlance of the times like a side hustle right? as just a way because I had to take a bit of a pay cut from being an Hr director to being a prof and so I just kind of started doing some of this stuff on the side without that much of a plan and it just worked out I guess I'm.

03:22.99

wongga

Yeah.

03:37.99

Derek Rolstone

I Guess I'm just lucky.

03:40.22

wongga

Ge not using your degree I think I can I I think that resonates with me being an excience guy with a master's degree and being in real estate. Um, oh yes, no of course of course. Um, so.

03:46.38

Derek Rolstone

Um, we have yeah now I use I use it every day but I didn't use it in the business planning. Yeah yeah.

03:56.90

wongga

Have to say like when we met a few years back at the ppma trade show the professional property managers. Um, you know who knew it would turn out into you know a years long business relationship. So I have to tell a bit of a story which fascinates me even though it might embarrass you a little bit so a few years ago I lost my admin manager as you know. And I was going crazy to try and put out ads conduct interviews I remember being impressed with your presentation at the ppma trade show the year before but all I could remember was your name. Um, so I went to our friend Google and I looked you up and.

04:34.94

wongga

I found your company but I also found a reference to Jeopardy so at the risk of taking a bit of a time travel into the past um tell me about this I'm I'm suitably impressed.

04:47.69

Derek Rolstone

Yeah, you would also find though although you'd never know by looking at me that I still have a Manitoba record for sprints when I was thirteen years old no one's been able to break it so ah, but on the on the jeopardy stuff I'll continue the bragging. I was down in Los Angeles with an old girlfriend in ninety five or ninety six I was pretty good at the trivia when I went to St Paul's high school. We were provincial champions at in reach for the top way back in the 80 s and so I thought I'd try this test.

05:13.80

wongga

Oh right? I remember that.

05:20.38

Derek Rolstone

And in those days I think they did it about once a week in the in the studio audience of of Jeopardy and and you'd go down there and you there's 50 questions that are on the Tv I get asked this a lot because people wonder how how that actually worked and 50 questions come up at about eight second intervals so it's a real.

05:38.94

wongga

Really.

05:39.88

Derek Rolstone

Like quick and not like top of board questions bottom of board questions and you have like ah a sheet of paper and you just have to write down 50 answers not in the form of a question and yeah it was a real shotgun and then you just kind of wait while they they did ah a show. And you'd wait and then they came back out and they asked you know apparently it's the top 5 percentile ah, in this case. Um, yeah, there was maybe 100 people there. They asked 3 of us to stay back. My girlfriend at the time didn't make it and so she had to wait for me.

06:03.83

wongga

Okay.

06:17.60

Derek Rolstone

Anyway, um, and it went pretty well and then they did some testing up on that ah stage and then they said okay, we'll call you and so about three months later they called me and got to go down there. My mom and dad came down from Victoria. It was pretty fun. And I was the first man atobin ever on the show and I you know I defeated the defending champion. But this woman from Hartford ah beat me by just a few bucks so it it was a lot of fun. It would have been more fun if I had won more money instead of furniture and and nice dishes which i.

06:36.28

wongga

Oh Wow. Okay.

06:54.29

wongga

Oh you want a reputation so that.

06:54.75

Derek Rolstone

Which I still have yeah, it was super fun I just I wish I would have won more just to play more because it was it was just great. Well none like I came second I came second.

07:03.53

wongga

Yeah, so you ended up winning how many rounds then oh like is it is it the first. Oh I see okay because you said you were beating this the defending champion. But you meant in the answers. Oh okay, got it What it.

07:12.85

Derek Rolstone

Yeah I he came third he came third I had a big lead Garen I had a big lead in the first round but these category First of all, everyone's ringing in on every like especially at the top of the board. There was one you know you and I were just talking about ah books on tape. There was 1 category lawyer authors. I knew all 5 of them and I didn't I didn't get in once and then in the second round there were some tough categories that I didn't really know very well and so it worked out. Okay, like I said I came second it was ah and it was a lot of fun but they do 5 shows.

07:34.30

wongga

Yeah.

07:50.10

Derek Rolstone

All in a row like they do a week's worth of shows in in one day. So so they tell you one of the things that your listeners might find interesting. They tell you you got to but like so you show up like with a garment bag and and you but you're supposed to bring 3 outfits just in case you win.

07:53.80

wongga

Oh Wow. Okay, yeah.

08:06.14

wongga

Oh so it's like oh today today is tomorrow type of thing and.

08:08.93

Derek Rolstone

Yeah, well yeah, it was. It's a Monday Tuesday they do two weeks of shows on on ah on a Monday Tuesday so if you if you win you know at the end of Monday you'd you'd come back the next day but it would be the next week of of but and it's I think it's usually about two months

08:15.33

wongga

Okay. Okay, write.

08:26.50

Derek Rolstone

And then I couldn't tell anyone how it went right? You have to sign off.

08:29.91

wongga

Right? Yeah, oh that must have been tough. Oh well that that's great. Yeah no, ah yeah, ninety s no I had to I had to ask I've always wanted to and we've we said it in passing. But.

08:33.81

Derek Rolstone

Yeah, yeah to um, twenty five years ago now yeah

08:46.18

wongga

This is my show I can ask what I want. So um, so let's get back to it. Um, what like HRHuman resources what makes you so passionate about the business of H R.

08:53.33

Derek Rolstone

Um.

08:58.63

Derek Rolstone

Well it. That's a great question and it is a business and a lot of people like I am and I'm a business person just like you Garrett just like lots of your listeners I am not ah sometimes hr can get a bad reputation that you know it's kind of mushy feel. Good. You know so like we're not social workers right? and we also are not representatives of the employees like there's an m in h r m and hr management. It sense for management. We're a strategic part of a business. Just like marketing just like accounting finance operations, etc. So I've always viewed it that way and and as mentioned you know going back to school and doing an Mba that really helped me um, from an ah hr perspective in terms of being part understanding I'm not an expert. On on finance or operations. But I know a little bit about it. So that's helped me in my career.

09:58.49

wongga

Okay, so one of the reasons. Um I wanted an hr person on a real estate podcast. Um, you know scalability right? I mean I know this when I was first starting out but i. You know you go to any all all the Facebook groups. Ah, one of the main questions is oh what What should I do for my first hire or I'm running around and I'm not finding deals because I'm doing all this admin stuff so tell us why someone would want to outsource their ah hr instead of you know, keeping it in-house if they happen to have. And assistant or something.

10:32.97

Derek Rolstone

Yeah I mean that's a great Question. You can't You can't do it all right? and and as my business started to grow I started to realize that I couldn't do it all I needed to have people on my team I needed to have contractors and employees that could do because you can't You can't be everywhere. And you need to you. It's a cliche but it's True. You can't be ah you know you need to be working on the business not in the business. So So people people need to hire the right people ah to work for them and ah we we help them do that right? You um um.

10:56.29

wongga

Yeah, no, that.

11:09.89

Derek Rolstone

Like I said you you just can't do it all yourself. So I mean I could ah you know my business partner in Bc she jokes that you know she doesn't cut her own hair right? I don't change the oil on my on my infinity I could do it but it would be messy and it would be time consuming.

11:11.22

wongga

Ok.

11:29.40

Derek Rolstone

And I probably wouldn't really do that good a job right? So some things you have to outsource and and hr can be 1 of them whether you have like probably 5% of my clients have an ah hr department and they just bring us in as an extra set of hands or an extra set of eyes.

11:30.17

wongga

Right.

11:46.60

Derek Rolstone

On something that they don't do regularly and they need some help so they've got some ah Hr people. But if it's terminations career transition that might be part of Terminations If It's an employee survey if it's a new employee handbook like we do that We do that stuff like I'm doing everything that I just Mentioned. We're doing all of that this week So We we you know we know what we're doing and so we can do it cheaper and and quicker and so that's why you'd want to outsource it whether whether you have hr people or if you don't have hr people like people are not good at firing right? like they don't do it that much.

12:20.80

wongga

Right.

12:24.26

Derek Rolstone

But we do it all the time and we do it well and we maintain the person's dignity and we keep lawyers away right? like we we we fired we fired the I fired more more people than anyone in winnipeg I guarantee it and it but it works our model works.

12:38.11

wongga

Wow. So so we're not just talking recruitment right? I mean I I know that when when I consulted with you and and engaged your firm to help us out I had um again, an administration manager. Um. I was doing some ah hr as well. But then I found out you know we I remember we we did ah a great employee manual and you you had all of these different things. Um, but I think hr people think of those traditional recruitment firms. Why don't you tell us a little bit about. 2 different models and and how stone how stone differs just just those firms out there right? There's a model out there I believe they charge I don't know you you know these numbers they charge a percent on I don't know what is it? somebody's salary to find you somebody or.

13:14.96

Derek Rolstone

On on the recruitment.

13:26.57

Derek Rolstone

Um, yeah, that's right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, we've talked about a few different things from it on on that we do in ah hr I I like to think or I think that our business is kind of half general HR r.. A lot of those things we mentioned already and then it's half search and so we don't we're not head hunters um and and we're not for we're certainly not discount head hunters we believe in helping companies hire helping individuals. We're often working we work with some nonprofits. Ah, we work with sport organizations some religious organizations. Um, you know places like the festival de voyageur we work with different nonprofit organizations. But I'd say about 80% of our business is companies like yours Garrett where we're dealing directly with the owner operator that has 5 or or 50 employees and. They're not They're great at a lot of things but they might not be great at hiring. There's a lot to it right posting an ad spreading the word ah looking at the different candidates and the other thing you know this already Garrett like we know the marketplace to we know Winnipeg if someone ah is applying. An admin assistant position. We not all of them but some of them we know for good reasons and bad right? And so that's where again someone says I can just post that on indeed myself? Yeah, go ahead, go ahead but we can do it quicker we can do it faster. We can do it cheaper.

14:43.22

wongga

Her her.

14:58.49

Derek Rolstone

And we can just do it better than than you can and does that cost some money. Yeah, of course it does but it's always reasonable 0 billing disputes in 9 years of business so the 2 models we have to finally answer your question sometimes if we were hiring an admin assistant. For example, we would charge an hourly rate. We would we write an ad we'd post an ad we pay for the ad. Ah, then we just take whatever those costs are and add them ah to the invoice and we find people we might some clients want us a full full white glove treatment. We're we're doing the whole thing up to and including. You know and then out on the on the backend referencing offer letters all that we'll do all that stuff some clients just want us out there kind of bird dogging and finding the right people for them. We'll do that too. So that's the hourly model then we have a salary ah not salaried model a flat rate model. Tougher to find positions for managerial for executive positions where we would just charge a flat rate not based on the salary because it that part doesn't matter to us. We shouldn't make more money because the person is getting paid more. We need to get. We need to get compensated for the work that we do. So we would charge a flat rate and it's very reasonable. It might be 7 % of salary it might be around 10% of salary what you're referencing is some head hunters that might charge 20 or 25% we we? Yeah, we don't do that and the other thing that gives.

16:19.72

wongga

Ah.

16:29.97

wongga

That's the number that was kind of in my head.

16:35.16

Derek Rolstone

Head Hunters a bad name. Ah you know sometimes some of them have a bad name some real estate agents have a bad name. Ah, and it's because they're not always ethical right? and they're poaching clients even their own clients. We we don't do that kind of stuff ever.

16:40.82

wongga

There.

16:51.31

wongga

I see. Okay, yeah, absolutely no it. It really clears it up I know that obviously I know that we were doing some hourly stuff with you but I do get approached as I'm sure other business owners do from some of these headhunting firms and.

16:55.29

Derek Rolstone

Does that help. Um.

17:10.56

wongga

You know always I just wanted the audience to sort of delineate the difference there. Um.

17:15.53

Derek Rolstone

It's ah it's an overused term I don't know if I'd call us disruptors but we do it. It. We do it in a different way and people seem to like we don't do work with Canada life right? we're we're working again with owner operators with nonprofit businesses. We and we work hard to help them keep the cost down we're we're still making money. Don't worry. Ah, but ah, but the the client is getting very very good value.

17:43.30

wongga

Yeah, no I mean that's that's the ah definition of a win-win right? when both parties are doing what they're supposed to and they both get great results. Um, let's let's transition and talk about new hires. Um, you know I've.

18:00.28

wongga

I've learned a lot from you and I want the audience to hear some of these things and some of these golden nuggets here. What do you recommend? an employer do to get the most out of a new hire.

18:09.23

Derek Rolstone

Well first of all hire the right person right? That sounds easy right? You know everything and you've heard me talk about it. My staff and my old students heard me talk about it I talk about it every day. Everything we do from a people perspective should be about attraction retention engagement. And if it's not about those things and then then why are we doing it so we need to be able to first of all, attract the right people and so when you get someone helping you out I mean it's 1 thing Garrett for you to talk to folks and and you're talking about how great upper edge is that's fine. it's better when someone else is you know it's hard to be a prophet in your own land so it's better when someone else is out there singing your praises and and saying hey look this is a good company. So so we want to hire good people and then of course we want to keep them. We want to keep them engaged right? My definition of engagement is. People that give discretionary effort people that go over and above. You've got some great employees. Lots of people don't have great employees because they're not great managers right? So manage your people pay your people a decent wage have lots of um, ah you know things. You do to engage your folks at work. So well, you know, ah matching rsp plans corporate social responsibility just having a good workplace like a but you know.

19:26.57

wongga

Such as.

19:42.65

Derek Rolstone

1 of my clients is the Anthony Allen office furnishings they're one of my biggest ones they make beautiful offices for people to come to That's how you retain ah folks um in in in the workplace. You know, giving them time off treating them. Well listening to them surveying them like there's you know. Ah, thousand different engagement factors but you know people and it's an overused cliche but it's totally true like people don't quit companies they quit bosses so treat treat your employees. Well right listen to them help them help their their careers advance. Right? Spend time with them. These are all the kinds of things you need to do to attract retain and engage people. You know I work with some companies and I'm like okay when's the last time you had you know performance conversations with input. What right? Okay, that's no good right? People want to know how they're doing.

20:37.56

wongga

You know I um, you worked with me quite a bit on on those that sort of that first week first day type thing and I know that I I I like to think I'm fairly organized I had ah ah a new employee checklist that was maybe half a page long and you and I ah. Expanded that to almost 3 pages and 1 of the things that resonated with me you know I'm paraphrasing here I can't remember exactly what you said, but something to the effect of you want to give that employee on their first day. Such an experience that when they go home and their partner spouse whatever asks them? How was your day you want them to be really saying how how great of a day it was instead of how stressful it was or first day jitters and all that type of thing.

21:25.68

Derek Rolstone

Yeah, no, you've got to get you've got a good memory and I've and I've used that example many many times like 100% of the time conversation at dinner on that person's first day with their loved ones is how was your day and if the answer to that is I'm not sure.

21:44.11

wongga

And here.

21:44.46

Derek Rolstone

Then you get a big f so you think about the time and money and and energy that goes into hiring people. But it's all for not if you don't orient on board them right? So you're right garret and you mentioned earlier you're talking about an employee handbook. And I've said I've said this to many people and I know you've done it like you you know, Sally Starton on on February Twenty Eighth so you know most people would give that employee handbook on the first day right? and it would be on their checklist which is great. You should have a checklist. Um. You know, 74% of people in a mckinsey study said that they've showed up at work on their first day and people were surprised to see them set like 3 out of 4 people that's terrible right? But if you know, Sally starting right? and I can think of.

22:31.84

wongga

Yeah, ah yeah, yeah.

22:39.51

Derek Rolstone

You know when I was an ah hr director and I had my new assistant was starting the next day and it's like five thirty and her office isn't ready and I've got the windex out I'm cleaning it up like you don't again another cliche but you don't get a second chance to make a good first impression. So again back to your manual if you know you know Sally Starton spend $9 it might be the best $9 you've ever spent call a local courier send it over to her house right or apartment or whatever then she's got it. It's sitting on the coffee table. Her dad looks through it while while he's watching a jets game or her husband or whatever hey. Hey this looks a good upper edge. This looks like a good company. Oh yeah, I've seen some other signs around sally you've made a good choice. So this all goes back and this isn't mushy. Ah hr stuff this is brand hr stuff. This is marketing hr stuff is it all goes back to. Ah, buyers remorse and reducing buyers' remorse or the potential for buyers' remorse and you can do that if you're on on my sermons almost over here. You can do that just with a little bit of good manners garrett. So when I tell people this story that I just.

23:40.66

wongga

Absolutely.

23:52.59

Derek Rolstone

Told you for the last 2 minutes they're always like oh that's such a good idea I never thought of that right? It's just good hosting.

23:55.72

wongga

Yeah, yeah, no I I followed that to a t and I can't tell you well how much the engagement was right? 1 of the other things that you had suggested was you know, take him out to lunch the first day right? It's stressful enough.

24:07.60

Derek Rolstone

Um.

24:15.70

wongga

Um, and I I do that on all of my new hires now and we're not allowed to talk about the job you know and and I've found if I don't have that time that first week and it's deferred for two or three weeks and then I have the lunch. It's all about work. That's all they want to talk about is work and then you don't get to know them as a person right? like you want.

24:20.94

Derek Rolstone

Um, yeah, perfect.

24:34.56

wongga

I try to you know during that that lunch hour just to I don't know tell them my vision. You know those high level things but just to get me to know me as a person. Um, you know 1 thing that you said to your point cleaning out the window or bringing out the windex. I'm embarrassed to say that I've I've been that employer that you know to use your your name. Their example Sally left the company and so you know Susan starts and I point to the corner and yeah, you know that's your cubicle and they open up the drawer and there's bits of gum wrappers and. Ah, they're detritus in there. Um, it's not a good first impression and they feel like they're they're second hand right right on day one. It's not it's not great

25:18.38

Derek Rolstone

Yeah I love that that you that you employ that and going out for lunch on the first day and you know one of the things I've got a little like you said a checklist but ah, a package orientation package and I use it a template from a guy who lives 2 doors down for me who's ah in river heights who's a client and and i. You you know I saw I got copied on an email. He sent a couple years ago and I said oh can I use this you know he sends a note out very simple, probably took him 45 seconds hey Manon we're excited that you're starting on. You know this is on Friday we're excited. You're starting on Monday this is going to be just great. Um, here's some of the stuff we're going to do. By the way, don't bring your lunch. We're going out for lunch. You know so that woman I guarantee you when she read that on her phone or computer turned to her husband or her friend and said hey I just got a note from my new boss isn't this a good company I'm joining right.

26:08.59

wongga

Yeah, yeah, hundred percent yeah no it's ah we just did an employee survey. Um, so thank you for that and just yesterday actually I was just reading the results and engagement is at an all time high. Um.

26:10.88

Derek Rolstone

All It's just good manners.

26:27.20

wongga

And you know one of the things my directors of operations told me when I asked him a long time Ago. You know what do you think about working here and he says you know financial compensation is good but a lot of people. He's found in his career is emotional compensation not just financial. And and a lot of people don't put a lot of stock into that especially on the employer level right? but but it's a real thing.

26:52.50

Derek Rolstone

Hundred hundred percent like companies that unionize I mean that's a failure if a company unionizes certifies a union to bring someone in to help them talk to their bosses. That's a failure of management right? but companies do not unionize because of wage.

27:11.49

wongga

Correct.

27:12.30

Derek Rolstone

Or benefits. It's because of bad management. It's because of not listening so I didn't know you had done a recent survey I love it when you say the let me turn the tables for a second when you say that engagement is up what like what what key indicators or what question was was was the most telling for you to to help. Determine and it's not are you engaged what other question did you ask that helped you determine that.

27:36.70

wongga

I Think it was the comments that came through um things like I love where I work management is very open I feel protected and safe that I can ask questions. Um and nobody. I Think there's a compensation question in there. Nobody mentioned that they're all talking about the other things that keep them at work and how great the company is and everybody's helping each other and they feel like a team.. It's not a cliche. Yeah no, it's ah it feels good. Feels good.

27:56.60

Derek Rolstone

Um, yeah.

28:02.24

Derek Rolstone

Love it. Yeah I Yeah I would add in there for you like if you that the verbatim comments are gold and and and you can find out good stuff like you said, but I can think of other places where.

28:12.53

wongga

Yeah.

28:19.17

Derek Rolstone

You know we got all these complaints about this is a brokerage company. We got all these complaints about the chairs right? and we're like what yeah and people are like my chair sucks and then the owner comes out and says okay who wants to be on the chair committee and a few people put up their hand. This is like the same day that we came up with the results.

28:35.64

wongga

Yeah.

28:38.24

Derek Rolstone

Ah, okay, you you and you that we're going to Costco let's buy 12 new chairs right? like that that's engaging right? That's people my opinion counts right? when they answered that question next year but the number one it for your listeners. They might find interesting the number one.

28:41.86

wongga

Yeah.

28:47.62

wongga

Yeah.

28:57.10

Derek Rolstone

And you can track this year over year. Um, the number 1 question to determine engagement is and there's lots of good ones like my opinion counts or I'm proud to work for upper edge. Those are good ones really good ones. The best 1 is. I would recommend. This is a place for my friends or family to work and if people strongly agree with that statement using the you know liker scale of of 1 to 5 if they strongly agree they're engaged and when they're engaged. They're going to do more work for you and they're not going to shut their computer down at at 24.

29:15.66

wongga

Hey the hey.

29:33.70

Derek Rolstone

Right? They're going to shut it to shut it down at four forty because they weren't quite done their work and that's how we make that's how we make more money through having good people.

29:34.70

wongga

Right? right? Yeah no I've um.

29:44.44

wongga

Yeah, and um, when engagement is high. The care factor is there and and it's infectious. Everybody knows you know the 1 poisonous personality and and if you don't take care of those things as a manager everybody sees. That you're not doing it so they think oh well if management doesn't care. Why should I and it it goes downhill so fast. Yeah, it's incredible.

30:08.28

Derek Rolstone

Um, no hundred percent I'm learning stuff from you here today I just wrote down that care factor. Good 1

30:13.11

wongga

Ah, well glad to help. Um, you know it's ah what is it February Twenty Twenty three because I'm sure this I'm hoping this podcast will stand for years on Itunes and Spotify. But you know covid right? The last few years it's been a. Pretty wild time in the world of hr um, we've had covid. We've had people being laid off people being rehired people not wanting to be rehired and now working remotely. Um, how do you think the landscape has changed now that working remotely. It's considered. Ah, normal part of employment.

30:50.80

Derek Rolstone

Um, um, yeah I thought you'd ask me this and I and I wish I I wish I had a better answer my my views on it change regularly. Ah you know I'll give you a consultant answer depends. Some people can work from home right? You've you got a good setup at home. And and your family probably doesn't bug you and you can probably get more work done. Not everyone has that also lots of people don't have the discipline ah to to work at home either. Ah, some people don't have the setup some don't have the discipline but the other thing is you can't build culture on Zoom. Or teams and you need to have that interaction. You need to have that interaction with your boss. You need to have that interaction with your colleagues. You need to have that water coololer talk you know there's ah, there's a reason you know before we before the pandemic five years ago people call it kind of telecommuting that term isn't being used as much anymore. But. Like Hp outlawed that stuff right? They need people to come into the office they need people to talk about what's going on and be able to collaborate and so maybe it is old school but it seems like most of my successful clients they need people in the office. I don't know if that answers your question.

32:11.91

wongga

Well um, it doesn't it doesn't because the reality is there are people who work remotely. Um and let's say that you have somebody who can work remotely and you know their their home environment is you know conducive to.

32:19.39

Derek Rolstone

Are.

32:29.23

wongga

Good work and quiet not being disturbed, but that thing of engagement that you're talking about right? I mean if if you're the one out of 20 employees that is allowed to and chooses to work from home and you're working in a bubble.

32:43.67

Derek Rolstone

And.

32:44.30

wongga

You miss all of the water cooler stuff. So how do how do you keep those people engaged. What would your advice be to those employers.

32:48.70

Derek Rolstone

What you? Yeah I mean notwithstanding all the stuff we've been talking about for for a couple minutes on this I also believe in results only work environments and so if you're getting the results and and you're working from home and that works for you and that works for your boss and you and your boss. Regular check-ins and you and your colleagues have regular check-ins with opportunities to to collaborate and you know as as the as the pandemic wore on you saw more or people getting better at Zoom's right it wasn't just log log in it was hey let's like actual structured stuff like. Hey tell me what happened on the weekend or you know Jimmy you're in charge of telling a joke this week on the Zoom or whatever right? So you have to be able to do that kind of stuff so you build community so that you try your best to to build culture but having said that you know when you've got folks that.

33:33.79

wongga

Yeah.

33:44.60

Derek Rolstone

Work remotely and um and I'm not talking about you know the model of having people working in different countries absolutely can work I'm talking about the model of people. Not even though they live only 5 minutes away or or 50 minutes away not being in work. Like you know if you get hired that way and you just work from home and you don't have a place that you go into regularly. You're you're a free agent and someone else is going to offer you an extra thousand dollars or an extra two bucks an hour. Whatever it is and. I'm just not sure where the loyalty is going to be.

34:24.82

wongga

Yeah, it's interesting I'm going to challenge you on that a little bit because um, you know as you know I have a mix of of remote employees and an actual office staff in our bricks and mortar office here in Winnipeg and we ah. I think I'm successful at it because I treat the environment the same. Okay I'm very purposeful. You know so if the audience can take anything from me on this when I say that what I'm saying is don't make work a better place than remote like It's going to be There's going to be coffee and donuts at the water cooler and and then the person who's logging on on Zoom is like oh I wish I could have my donut today that sucks right? That's that's a negative thing right? So when we when we have a staff party. Um, even though some are at the office. Um, it's on Zoom. Right? It's I actually have the camera going in the board room. You know everybody can see each other. We're doing trivia I've bought lunch for everybody. Um, but now it's being delivered to their home rather than them having to come pick it up and then go you know what? I mean so it's it's just keeping everything fair.

35:36.39

Derek Rolstone

Yeah, you? Yeah I mean not everyone's like you Garrett right? because you work it because you because you're a smart guy and you're a good business person and and people should work to emulate that and like you said it's purposeful and you're reading my mind I've I've done that too where I've done training in class training. Um, but then some people are online and yeah we did we sent subway to their house right? It's pretty easy to do it just requires ah ah a little bit of effort and maybe a little bit of money but you have to treat people fairly so I fully agree with you and I'm not trying to suggest that that everyone needs to be coming into the workplace.

36:02.78

wongga

Yep.

36:15.65

Derek Rolstone

Because there's different models out there but you need to treat people fairly and the same. Yeah.

36:22.21

wongga

And yeah and I think you you have to work at it harder. Yeah I think that's the lesson here for the audience if you want to have a remote employee and remote employee part of me, you have to work at it and um, you know so.

36:36.23

wongga

I Think my next question for you is what suggestions would you have for employers to ensure they get the most out of their remote workers.

36:44.82

Derek Rolstone

Yeah I think we I think we touched we've touched on a few of those things like 1 one is is staying in touch with them and it's communication and it's regular communication employees need to be able to predict what it is that their boss is looking for on on a regular basis and and employers need to have that of their employees. So. You know setting those targets and kpis in terms of results but also in terms of communication that that's the absolute key and then the second is what we also just talked about is is recognizing that they're not there. But how do we still be an inclusive environment for them.

37:22.73

wongga

Yeah, um, you know it's interesting. So I have I started out with a remote. They call them va virtual assistants I don't even like to use that term because an employee to me as an employee but feree was um, our very First. Ah, higher more we call them the test tube baby because I didn't know this was before covid I wanted to see what would happen with a remote employee. Um, so first he's now been with us for 4 years I've never met him in person right lives in Mexico I'm jealous because ah you see um. Sunshine when we've got minus thirty on our on our screen share at the bottom there but um, one of the things that resonated with me when I was interviewing him was you know how do you because he had already worked remotely as a translator you know what do you do to to ensure.

38:00.19

Derek Rolstone

Right.

38:18.21

wongga

That you're you're productive at home and you know so this is something for those employers and remote employees to take home here. He says I treat it like a job now. Everybody says that but he goes no like really I I get up I shower I shave I change into my business attire and. And I turn on my computer and I'm I'm in a different room. He said yes the Tv is there. But if I'm not in my sweats and my my t-shirt and whatever I don't feel like I'm at home and I can separate it that way because he's done those those routines and um. And that resonated with me and that's and I hired him and again it's been 4 years

38:56.85

Derek Rolstone

And and that's a good answer and I think back even this is way before the days of of Zoom I had a phone interview this is twenty years ago I lived in downtown Vancouver and I had a phone interview on a Saturday and and my wife we had just gotten married. And and ah you know I was about to get on the call and she's like you you got to put on a shirt and tie and a jacket and I'm like what are you talking about she said yeah, it'll make a difference and yeah I got the job. So maybe it did right? Maybe it did work. You know we've got federal government employees. None of them. Want to come back to work and their union's fighting to not get them back to work and hey I get it. They want to be on conference calls while they're emptying the dishwasher I get that. But again there needs to be stuff in place from a communication perspective from a expectations perspective. Of ah the work that you that you need done. So I love this example of of the guy that's getting up and shaving and and going to work The other thing is people need some discipline like I don't know about you Garrett, but when I'm at home like ah I'm not I'm not eating that well ah versus versus this this try to try to be healthy stuff. That I would bring into the office right? So you got to keep you got to keep away from the fridge and the Tv you got to have discipline.

40:13.46

wongga

Yeah, it's yeah for sure and it it isn't for everybody. Um I think people who choose to work remotely or for employers who are allowing or enticing workers to work remotely. You know you're you're you're. You're offering and advertising a lifestyle. Um, for somebody who maybe they live an hour outside and and they're shaping shaving 2 hours of commute right? so.

40:40.84

Derek Rolstone

Um, that's and that's different but that it's not like that in in Winnipeg. It's not like that nowhere nowhere is really ah, all all that far away.

40:43.67

wongga

No well half an hour commute both ways. It's an hour compared to jumping out of the shower and turning on Zoom.

40:56.23

Derek Rolstone

Ah, 100% except there's something you're forgetting Garrett a lot of these employees of yours they have they work for you or they work for other companies. They have another job though and I'm not talking about a side hustle I'm talking about their other maybe more important job of being a mom or dad right.

41:05.96

wongga

Um, right, right? right.

41:12.25

Derek Rolstone

And so like when I think about we were talking before about you know, books on tape. Um, ah you know I used to I lived in downtown Vancouver about 20 minutes ah from from my office and and I walked home every day and sometimes people would be like Derek you need to lift I'm like no like I need this time.

41:30.95

wongga

Um, yeah.

41:31.64

Derek Rolstone

Right? And so I'd suggest to you tell me if you agree with me like if your commute home is walking up the basement stairs and you have to go from a you know a business person rule to dad mom or dad role in 30 seconds I don't think that. I think a lot of people can't do that.

41:50.98

wongga

I agree you know what? I yeah maybe you made me turn my head there Derek because ah I remember even at my when I was working at our office and you know I live about Twenty Twenty five minutes away from the office that that downtime.

42:03.56

Derek Rolstone

Um.

42:08.73

wongga

Right? Whether you're listening to a podcast or just putting on Spotify or just silence driving through traffic letting the stress bleed off, um one of the ah, a good friend had said to me no matter what happens this is pre remote work pre pre covered.

42:26.21

wongga

When I get home I sit in the driveway for 30 seconds and I say to myself no matter what happened at work what type of person do I want to be when I walk through that door. Do I want to be the father that greets everybody do I want to be the great husband. You know the great partner or do I want to be a crank because somebody has.

42:34.97

Derek Rolstone

Um, yeah.

42:46.29

wongga

Ticked me off at work and you bring that home into the door and I thought that was really really good advice just to sit there for 30 seconds but to your point. What do you do when you're in the basement you know, meditate at the bottom of the stairs for 5 minutes maybe maybe but the add that.

43:00.32

Derek Rolstone

Maybe that's what they have Maybe that's what some people have to do maybe they have to come to that that realization.

43:05.72

wongga

I don't know but you know I'm learning here too and I'm making a note of that because I think that is something that I want to implement in my company Asap is just yeah, how do you?? How do you create separation. How do you create that buffer that. That transition between work and then home life when you're working remotely because I have so many remote workers.

43:27.96

Derek Rolstone

Yeah I'd I'd say just just to add on to that one of the positives that I've noticed is like um you know when you are on Zoom or teams or or or even on just on the phone and like the dog walks by or there's kids or nobody cares anymore. Right? Like and and back and I'd say a few years ago we were like oh my god I'm so embarrassed I can think of that one where there was this british politician that was on it was on Tv and the kid. Ah no, it would I I think I know that one but I saw another one where you know the kid came into his.

43:53.28

wongga

Oh right? The cat thing right? was that the.

44:02.94

Derek Rolstone

Study I guess and then the the mom is trying to get pulled the kid back out the door and and it and it went viral and I I was thinking So what? No no one cares anymore about that. So I think that's actually a positive.

44:05.11

wongga

Yeah, yeah.

44:13.75

wongga

Yeah, no yeah no I would agree with that hundred percent um okay so final question sound like Jeopardy don't I final question all right? Um, no I ask every.

44:26.38

Derek Rolstone

Um, okay I'm betting betting it all here.

44:31.29

wongga

Guess this question and I'd like to hear what you have to say so this is the invest to win Podcast W I n so winning. How do you Define success and what does winning look like for you.

44:42.60

Derek Rolstone

Yeah, well two things I mean for for me winning is is when I can provide services and and companies that I work with or organizations grow and they need they need more services of mine and they and they keep calling me back I mean that's that's winning right. Ah, that's like when I'm having I've had like I have fun every day in my job right? And no, One's no one's yelling at me like to to the beginning of our ah podcast. Um, so to me that's winning where I'm providing. You know it happens all the time I I run into people that I help place somewhere I don't always remember them right.

45:08.95

wongga

Who.

45:20.81

Derek Rolstone

But you know or I or I taught them like I just had someone just yesterday I'd taught them at red river and I recommended her for a job at 1 of my clients and she she got the job right? So to me like that's that's winning right? when you can have or you know I run into someone and they say hey you know when you did this when you helped me with. Like that changed my light like I I maybe don't even remember it that well but it obviously had an effect on them which is wonderful. So to me that's that's winning um for my clients. Ah you know again, it goes back to you know, hiring better employees that'll help you. You know grow a business and and and be more successful and then hire even more employees right? and continue to and then making money I mean we live in a capitalist society. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with us wanting to make money right? And what do and what can we do with that money.

46:13.53

wongga

Correct, Yeah no I've asked that question a lot and I don't think a lot of people talk about. They don't say money I mean I imagine I will have a guest that does say that eventually but it'll probably be in a different slightly different context but certainly. You know the success of your clients and the success of your business is evident through your passion.

46:38.76

Derek Rolstone

But that's that's nice of you to say? Yeah yeah, well I'm I mean sorry just you know just to just to you know, not all my clients are as good as you a gara just to give a little bit of love and mush to you? Yeah I mean you listen to the things that we talk about right? You are are you.

46:43.41

wongga

Yeah, so um, let's wrap. Yeah.

46:58.42

Derek Rolstone

Um, alluded to some of them during our our short time together. Um, there's there's lots of things that we can do to make things better for employees to make things better for companies. Um, and and this is not and you've heard me say this before I mean you have a science mind I don't right I don't know how to do trigonometry. Um, but this stuff isn't the the good news is a lot of this hr isn't isn't Trigonometry. It's like like with a lot of things in life. It just requires a little bit of planning and a little bit of thought and and some good manners.

47:29.89

wongga

Awesome!? Well we'll ah we'll put your information down in the show notes. So people can get in touch with you if they need your help and you know what I had a blast I can't believe the time is over already and I'd I. And a fantastic time I'd like to just thank you for hanging out with with me here for this last hour.

47:48.30

Derek Rolstone

Well good good luck on this great venture Garrett I'm glad I'm glad that you're doing this and thanks very much I'm honored to to be 1 of your would be 1 of your guests. Thanks.

47:56.31

wongga

All right? Thanks a lot Derek take care.