00:00.00

wongga

Welcome investment community this is garret wag your host of the investing to win podcast today I have a special guest all the way from the West Coast John Si John how are you.

00:12.74

John Tsai

I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me.

00:14.19

wongga

No honors all mine I Know you're a busy guy and getting our schedules to connect is going to be very fruitful So I'm excited to have you on the show. So before we begin like.

00:23.33

John Tsai

Um, thank you.

00:27.84

wongga

For maybe you to introduce yourself to the audience so they can get a bit of background on you.

00:33.27

John Tsai

Yeah, sounds great. Thank you? Um, so I have been selling real estate now for the last seventeen years started in 2006 I'm an immigrant from Taiwan and came over here in 1991 and so now I guess that's 32 years here in Vancouver and you know getting into real estate. My only thing was to buy enough real estate. So I can retire from the residual rental income that was coming in right and I'll tell you a little story about that is ah how I got into it is um when I was 22 years old I was in Taiwan on vacation. And it was during my fourth year of ah University Of British Columbia in psychology so my last year there and I ran into this gentleman. He was 42 years old and it was Tuesday afternoon and I'm like this man I always see here during my summer of vacation I'm like do you work. His name is will. Caucasian Caucasian Gentleman I said well do you even work. He said no well I'm retired I'm like what how did you retire? he said? well you know I built a language school here teaching english to to kids and I sold it. And from the proceeds of the sale I went and bought a lot of real estate here in town and I basically live off with the rent I'm like wow how can I you know become as successful as you are. What would you recommend me? do so he's.

02:00.89

John Tsai

Said to me, go read the book Rich Dad poor dad and from there. It started my whole journey. You know I read the book from cover to cover I had never written. Ah ah read a book from cover to cover ever even with textbooks and the only thing that I got from that book was.

02:03.58

wongga

Of course.

02:20.51

John Tsai

Buy enough real estate so you can create the rental income to cover your monthly expenses or you're out of the rat race and that was it and you know 17 years later I'm still not out of the rat race but that's okay, still working.

02:27.21

wongga

Right.

02:36.20

wongga

Ah, well, you're intentionally in the Rat Race No so you started off in rentals. So I imagine you're still in well I know that you're in real estate sales right? As you said and you started off in rentals. So what was the ah the transition moment for you to begin selling.

02:51.81

John Tsai

Well, it was actually when I when I got my license. It was more about okay, how do I learn how to buy more real estate and I didn't have any capital. So how can I learn and buy real estate at the same time. So then I got my license. When I got into it 2006 you know I utilized my first commission check to put it back into the deal. So I bought my first presale in 2006 all at the same time I had some help from parents. You know when we needed to close and that was my first property and um.

03:22.31

wongga

A.

03:28.40

John Tsai

Really in 11008 you know I started like okay you know what? I'm actually more into this like sales than than investing and so I directed my focus there I'm becoming the best salesperson I could be. And then of course at the same time when I get the capital from the sales I would invest in real estate but my my energy and my focus was more so sales now and that had become my focus all the way through until now. Yeah.

03:55.13

wongga

Okay, okay, so ah, side story John and I met audience a few weeks ago I was asked to speak at an Eexp Realty event at the winnipeg art gallery here in town so we met and connected and this is why? um. I was intrigued to to bring John on the program. So I'm just trying to lay some background for you John to maybe explain your role in Eexp and and then I'm going to sort of transition us into what the motto is because that that's really why I wanted to bring you on so tell us about eexp.

04:30.18

John Tsai

Fantastic! Thank you? Um, so my story is you know selling real estate for 1213 years I was grinding to no end seven days a week twelve to 14 hour days and then I had to look for a way out. Right? And the way out was to create multiple streams of income again. It's like through rentals through business income but I didn't want to do any other businesses. So when I looked at this model it provided 3 very distinct benefits that other brokerages were not providing number 1 is namely building equity. And in real estate a lot of agents. Um, you know we we sell homes. But we don't we we tell our ah clients not to rent. But in fact, we are renting our brokerages we are renting our companies. We don't actually own the company. But with exp because we become shareholders of the company I can become an owner and number two was if I were to you know enroll agents and help them become productive contribute to them. And when they make an income the company compensates me as a referral fee and it's not just a one-time referral fee. It's a recurring referral fee and therefore we created a second very consistent income for myself and my family and number three was they were going to give us a platform called kbcor. It.

05:52.54

John Tsai

Acts as a website crm and lead generation tool all at once. So you know going from a brick and mortar traditional brokerage to this in four years I was able to basically make selling real estate optional. Meaning the residual income that I had built from the um from you know, attracting agents and helped them become productive had created a consistent and but enough income for me to be able to say okay I can make work optional right? so. Basically, that's my journey and then you know because of that I went from seven days a week Garrett to four days a week which is so sweet. But here's the thing like when you get complacent and rich and a lot of money in the bank. Um problems are coming to look for you right.

06:30.78

wongga

Nice.

06:44.65

John Tsai

And sure enough it did interest rates went from 3 to 7 almost overnight and a lot of my properties garret. You know went doubled in payments. So that's when you get into trouble and then I get a big tax bill all at the same time all this craziness chaos going around.

06:47.62

wongga

Yes. Hey hit.

07:03.41

John Tsai

By the end of 2022 2023 um I was like man like and and yeah exp was in in that little bit of a ah grind with other competing companies up and coming and I said to myself hey you know what if exp ever has me doing any corporate stuff I'm in. If it's agent advisory council. It's any sort of corporate thing that I can help out with I'm going to do it and sure enough March Sixth Two Thousand and twenty three the the Ceo of the company calls me and he asked me would you be open to a position. I said what position he said essentially it's the president of Eexp Realty Canada so immediately I said I'm in because Eexp has given me everything I've got going from seven days a week to four days a week from 12 to 14 hour days to 4 hour days I gotta give it back somehow. So that's why I'm in this position and he requested. Okay, this is what you have to do you have to be in you. He didn't say you have to he said that the plan is to have more exposure um social media events.

08:20.30

John Tsai

And every month go to 5 different canadian cities if you can to promote exp in Canada I said Glenn I don't know how I'm gonna do that I'm in you know I got two young girls 7 years old but Daddy's gonna have to.

08:23.21

wongga

Wow wow.

08:36.70

John Tsai

You know, step up for the company and and I'm I'm all for it. So here I am three months later almost four months now later um, just doing it Garrett.

08:46.11

wongga

Amazing. No I and I mean that you were flying through Winnipeg and that's how we met. Um, let me back up for the audience because as our audience knows I used to be a realtor and I transitioned into property management because of that that end goal because. As you know when you stop selling the income stop right? and you go on vacation for a month you come back? Maybe you have another agent helping you or covering your splitting referral fees. Whatever but either the income stops. So a lot of agents try to get into property management. They try to get into something that's going to give them that residual.

09:06.44

John Tsai

Um, yeah.

09:14.83

John Tsai

Um, do.

09:22.56

wongga

Um, so it's It's very interesting that yeah Eexp has this model that basically takes care of that.

09:30.27

John Tsai

That's one hundred percent and before I got into exp I was with my previous company locally here and I didn't even know about eexp I was like okay how can I create multiple streams of income and number 1 idea was to go into property management.

09:45.15

wongga

There you go. Ah.

09:46.22

John Tsai

And that was it and and and before I really had the chance to even get it started back up. Ah but started up. Um, yeah Eexp came into my awareness and you know that was history after that.

09:58.19

wongga

Yeah, well property management as most of my listeners know is not not an easy gig. It's It's a bit of a grind too and and honestly I think it's It's sort of a means to an end. Um because the end goal is to own rental properties for a lot of people but not necessarily to manage them. Um.

10:02.94

John Tsai

It's not Jim.

10:12.40

John Tsai

Yeah.

10:15.76

wongga

So yeah, three 4 months that's amazing absolutely amazing I think what intrigued me to want to bring you on. Um is I heard this term collaboration over competition and I don't know if that's an official eexp motto I heard you say it on stage. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that and what it means.

10:25.30

John Tsai

And.

10:31.95

John Tsai

Yeah, yeah I think you in the real estate industry at least in a traditional way. Most agents are competing on gains each other especially if you're in the same market you are going to compete against each other even when you're in different markets. Why would I want to share my secrets with you right? and I think you've found that especially with the pandemic how it happened is that we came together.

10:53.10

wongga

Writes.

11:00.17

John Tsai

Every industry we just ah started to collaborate. We started to come together and hold hands and say hey you know what we got, we got to get each other's back. This is a world problem now. So I think and exp was kind of built for that because we're all about collaboration right? at Exp. The model and the culture is geared towards that because if I were to help another eexp agent become productive and share with him all my secrets because he's a shareholder and I'm a shareholder if he sells more real estate and earns more income to the company I also benefit.

11:33.98

wongga

Okay.

11:36.75

John Tsai

And the second layer of that is like if I were to enroll that agent directly and of course the company compensates me as a referral fee I would benefit double time. So why wouldn't I want to collaborate right? So now there's no competition with each other and that.

11:44.67

wongga

Right? right.

11:54.38

John Tsai

Culture and that thought had kind of just melted through the whole organization of where everybody is collaborating instead of competing and now I'm thinking you know Beyond This is like I want to collaborate with everybody in the market. Not just our brokerage and I think. That's the right way to go about business is more give than gain right and put everybody together instead of compete collaborate I could see I can go on all day about that. But I think I'll leave it. There.

12:20.71

wongga

Hundred percent well no and we will get into the weeds on it a little bit but I mean there's a term in property management and I believe it does apply to realtors and brokerages is you know fighting over the red versus the blue ocean. Okay, and what I mean by that is you picture the blue ocean I mean it's infinite. But if you're fighting within a market fighting within your own brokerage fighting with your own city with agents. You get you bloody the water literally. It's sharks and that's where the red ocean comes from and it's much better to collaborate and get into that blue ocean.

12:39.27

John Tsai

Um, um.

12:51.00

John Tsai

Um, yeah, um, absolutely.

12:58.24

wongga

Um, So yeah, no, um I I think for business wise I think a lot of businesses can also look at that I mean I'm out there trying to also just pay it forward and that's that's what really what you're talking About. Um. Can you maybe share some specific ways that that philosophy's been implemented within Eexp in terms of actual collaboration.

13:22.33

John Tsai

Yeah, this is great. So I come in here and I basically I used to be a real estate coach professionally with the Mike Ferry organization and if you know Mike Ferry he's been around for 48 forty nine years now in real estate coaching agents. And I used to be 1 of the coaches. So I brought my skill set to the company and not only do I coach basically all the agents that are in my group that I have attracted but I speak on this platform called Verbela. It's a virtual world where we get all of our agents to come in. So. For example, yesterday seven o'clock in the morning I speak right in front of this laptop but I'm speaking to um, eighty agents within the exp world virtually so that's how we'll kind of collaborate and then of course the events that we do. That's how we collaborate and this afternoon I'm doing a happy hour for the local agents and it's open to all eexp gens. In fact, it's open to all agents and that's how we collaborate. So really, it's about collaborating through building communities and providing value in the industry out there. Um to all the agents out there. And I could go on and on about how we collaborate but for me to kind of travel to 5 cities and give value. That's collaboration.

14:41.89

wongga

So you're talking how to sell the nuances how to attract like social media like basically everything a new agent or experience agent needs.

14:51.14

John Tsai

Absolutely and it could be investing topics last time we were in Calgary. There was the speaker from raine that came and we we invite all these speakers to come and give different ideas to basically give value out there.

14:59.56

wongga

Okay.

15:08.92

John Tsai

Ah, so that real estate agents don't feel alone and that's the that's the whole goal because real estate sales. Especially it's very. It's a very lonely business.

15:20.80

wongga

Yeah, no I would agree with that because I remember as a young agent. Um, actually I I you said 2006 I was 2007 so um I was given a phone book like literally my broker gave me a phone book.

15:27.92

John Tsai

And.

15:34.70

wongga

And said okay your work partner is starting from a you start from z you're cold calling and I went through and I literally cold called I mean hundreds of people for that week and and still felt very alone right? I think I managed to get into one house for a listing appointment. But.

15:38.63

John Tsai

True. Wow.

15:47.33

John Tsai

Um, yeah, nice exactly right? yeah.

15:52.50

wongga

That was it. Yeah.

15:57.77

wongga

So let's talk about team dynamics. Um, you know you've got the collaborative ethos almost like how does that? How did the team dynamics feel and the work environment at Exb because of this collaboration.

16:11.53

John Tsai

The team dynamics. There's so many different ways to look at it. So I have a team here locally and we have 27 agents and we do sales here in the Fraser Valley and and Greater Vancouver and so that is basically my own sales team is started from me just selling real estate.

16:30.37

wongga

Right.

16:31.53

John Tsai

Right? So that's the team dynamic there. But also there's the bigger group in which we have about 300 here ah you know with myself locally in Bc and then I have another you know 700 all over North america so part of that that group is in.

16:49.40

wongga

Um, okay me see okay.

16:49.87

John Tsai

Winnipeg so ah, Raj would be in that group so that's how we kind of collaborate north america wide and I also have people in India and Mexico and we're expanding to other countries as well. So that's called the the revenue share organization. We call it. And then I have the team locally here selling real estate right? So it's all kind of intertwine in 1 big umbrella.

17:11.58

wongga

Okay, and you're collaborating and coaching and helping your entire group in 1 way shape or form.

17:22.95

John Tsai

Exactly and every week I do 8 trainings over Zoom and 1 live training. Um locally here at the wework that we have rented and agents from all over exp. Not just my group. They all come to the training and in fact. It's one of the tools where we can show what we do at? Yeah ep so other brokerages come to that. Also, that's what I'm talking about for collaboration I don't mind I don't want to keep it exclusive like okay if you're not ep or if you're not in my group at exp you can't come. Or if you're not at yeah exp if you're at Oakland or Sutton or Remax you can't come like I'm well I'm welcoming everyone to give that value out there and it's all free training right.

18:02.46

wongga

Okay, as most of my listeners know. Um I'm all about relationships not about transactions one real estate transaction One Customer It's all about building long-term relationships but I want to transition over into the customer the end client relationship. Because collaboration over competition. That's fine to collaborate with you know your your colleagues to get more real estate sales make more money but what is the end goal. How does it affect collaboration over competition. How does that affect the client, the client relationship.

18:35.40

John Tsai

I think the client relationship if you look at it on the the fact that the client just wants. Good customer service. They want a good customer experience. You know it's not just buying and selling the home. It's really like there's so many emotions behind it that you want a good experience. And a lot of times if you're ah just 1 agent and I've been there right? like you if you have 1 clients 2 2 1 client 2 clients 3 clients. You're like okay well I can handle this I can. Provide excellent customer service I can be everywhere and do this like I'm gonna go buy gifts and and I'm gonna make sure that the their place gets clean. Handyman gets done inspection notary I'll do all that for you. But once you have 10 clients 20 clients 30 clients then the service level goes down.

19:23.64

wongga

Yeah.

19:25.26

John Tsai

Right? So you'll you'll need to collaborate somehow either with another agent not on your team yet or you're going to hire have to hire an assistant. So really the collaboration over competition really helps the end clients because you're getting great customer service.

19:36.33

wongga

Yes.

19:41.41

John Tsai

And it has I believe right now it has to be done with the team right.

19:44.80

wongga

Yeah I I would agree I what you just described. John is very very typical agent gets into the market has a good reputation works there behind off clients start coming through the door and they try to scale. That's a very big business term. They try to scale their operation. And you start having a team which is great but it usually starts out with an unlicensed assistant and maybe a license assistant and now you've got 3 or 4 people. But you know the transition that no man's land to go from 0 up to 3 or 4 is it's horrible I've done it. Know many agents that have done it and to have help along the way. Um, yeah, the end client is going to benefit right from the day one.

20:29.71

John Tsai

I really think so And yeah, as I was coming up you know, selling 20 homes a year 30 homes a year and then 50 homes a year once I got to that hundred Mark um, you know really I had 1 assistant and 1 showing agent that was working with me. And once to go from 50 to that hundred Mark I lost some clients because I had turnover on my team as well and then I would get comments like you know John I just don't think you have enough time for us right? and that you're getting too big is what I hear I'm like oh wow.

20:58.36

wongga

A yep.

21:06.51

John Tsai

And that's good feedback and that just simply means that I didn't train the team well and that I didn't give give them a good customer experience like a good customer experience doesn't mean that John has to physically be there all the time it just means that they need a good customer experience doesn't matter who does it. So you do have to train train your team well but in the meantime in growing you're goingnna experience some pain in losing some clients and you're just going to have to be okay with that. You're not going to be 100% even if you service them one ah hundred percent yourself you're still going to lose clients. But every single day you got to just become better at working on your systems hiring the right people and having the great mentality that I'm going to provide impeccable customer service as long as I'm in real estate. That's the mentality you got to have and then if if your your mentality's all or you work around that then you can't go wrong. But if you're thinking profit and revenues first then you're going in the wrong direction with these clients does that make sense and.

22:05.43

wongga

Absolutely yeah, no for sure. But with the collaboration ah within your group within your downlines and whatever like that. Um. Speak to me about how that would work when you know you're a little bit too busy. You have an open house on a Sunday um does the the team naturally want to participate because they're part of that initial group the collaboration.

22:28.31

John Tsai

I Think so and we look for people who are collaborative we look for people who are team players you know and we give them a questionnaire saying hey you know if it's if this isn't your deal. Are you going to help.

22:40.65

wongga

Right? yeah.

22:43.34

John Tsai

You know if this is do you work. Ah, do you work well alone or do you like being in a team environment and these are more so like not trick questions but like to really dig out. Okay is this the right type of agent that we want on the team and if you're not a team player. Um, you know we can't accept you.

22:57.57

wongga

Okay, right? Yeah, um, so we've been speaking about the benefits and I know there's some other models similar to Xp but the quote this whole collaboration. Um.

23:02.71

John Tsai

Right.

23:15.62

wongga

We're talking about benefits but there has to be challenges. Why don't you speak to me about the challenges of this model if there are any.

23:20.10

John Tsai

Yeah I think some and it's not for everyone like even if I say okay well I can give you $10000 a month in residual income. But you're gonna have to find your own office. Some people are like no then I can't do it.

23:32.87

wongga

Rate. Okay.

23:38.13

John Tsai

Right? And some people just need that environment to walk into right? So we have no bri mortar. We we do create that for ourselves I mean I rent. Ah we work where you know agents can come in and out and whatnot and we have training live and that's why we do so many events so we can be with each other.

23:43.85

wongga

Bricks and mortar office right.

23:52.67

wongga

Yeah.

23:57.50

John Tsai

But in fact, we don't have let's say ah you know locally Anyway, Ah yeah, Exp sign where people can just walk in I don't have that myself and a lot of agents. You know, have challenges with that and it's a real challenge. You just can't get used to it right? Um I think.

24:14.89

John Tsai

I think that's been the biggest thing for a lot of agents as a challenge and I can say locally here because we have a lot of 100% models right? So you so come and sell real estate. It's a flat fee per transaction into low monthly fee.

24:15.95

wongga

Can.

24:33.63

John Tsai

Ah, yeah, exp is not the cheapest. So sometimes that you know if they don't see the value of what they can get. They're like you know what? I'm not really looking to go do 50 deals or 25 deals anyways I'm just gonna do my couple a year I need the fees to be low I don't really get the Exp vision. What what is trying to do.

24:33.94

wongga

No no.

24:53.17

John Tsai

Then I think that's also a challenge in okay fees. So those are the 2 that I kind of come across.

24:59.62

wongga

Yeah, but the underarching theme that you're speaking about there is somebody who is established. Ah maybe not so great remote. Maybe not that great with technology and they're kind of set in their ways and yeah, if you're 100%

25:10.12

John Tsai

Um, yeah.

25:16.50

wongga

On 100% plan with a brokerage. It'd be hard pressed for you to start to give up some of that. But then I would challenge them to say okay, but when you retire this is stopping like you can't I guess you could sell your book to somebody but it really doesn't exist. It's not like property management where you can sell. You know those contracts because you don't really have contracts. You have relationships right? That's it and yep.

25:38.25

John Tsai

Yeah, and that's hard to manage right? So it really isn't residual income. Ah you know you you do have to still put in the active work to work on that database that you've been sold to right? So I think you know at the end of the day. Um.

25:47.62

wongga

He he.

25:54.84

John Tsai

It's all about if the agents see value if you actually see the value what it's providing. It's really a no brainer. But if you can't see past that then there's so many hurdles in front right? and the 2 main things are the split at least locally here the split and then the ah location.

26:13.79

wongga

yeah yeah I think if anything covid has if there's any benefits you could say about that. Um, because our lives have been changed forever. But one of the benefits is that people are used to being on video they are used to things like verbelo or Zoom.

26:14.52

John Tsai

Can.

26:30.60

wongga

Um, and maybe there is a larger contingent at least ah in my groups that want to work at home and and get those coveted remote jobs right? So I think.

26:37.90

John Tsai

I just I was just gonna bring that up. You know when I came into the company we were at 14000 all over yeah Eexp and when covid hit we went all the way now to eighty eight thousand and that's in that's in less than 4 years.

26:51.15

wongga

Wow. Okay, well there you go.

26:58.24

John Tsai

Yeah that's and it's because of that because covid said okay, well you know you can you can't go to the office anymore and every other brick and mortar brokerage was like oh my god what are we going to do you know sure enough they're they're going to get some subsidies from the ah from the government or or whoever. But when you're making no sales and you still have to pay $60000 a month to upke that office. What are you going to do right? And that's why a lot of agents came over and said hey you know what we're going to give up our brick and mortar we're going to come to this model and it's it's happening actually still right now where.

27:20.24

wongga

Here. Yep.

27:34.25

John Tsai

You know, a lot of brokerages are bringing their whole brokerage over because there's less liability. There's less cost. There's no franchise fees. No brick and mortar. They just bring it over here and with their agent count. They can still be very profitable without all the big expenses right? So I think Covid definitely helped us.

27:41.37

wongga

Right.

27:53.40

John Tsai

Big time.

27:53.86

wongga

Yeah, yeah, um, like not having bricks and mortar. It was that intentional. Um with the founder is that intentionally part of the model and why.

28:00.46

John Tsai

Yeah that's a great question. So what had what had happened was this was born out of the first um, not the first but what we would be called the great recession Glenn Sanford was in real estate in 2002 before that he was a stockbroker. He was a ted up tech startup guy right? and he also worked in network marketing and then the last one he was in real estate with ah Kw and at kw in 4 years he was able to sell $60000000 worth of real estate.

28:19.17

wongga

I think.

28:28.22

wongga

Ah.

28:34.40

John Tsai

Solely by connecting consumers online right? and then in 2008 what had happened was he has 6 um expansion teams at Kw and then everything came crashing down because again sales if they plummet by 70% your franchise fees are still there and your brick and bricks and mortar are still there in terms of cost. So you said you know what? I'm I'm just going to pack it all in I'm going to start this new realty first it was buyers tour realty but that didn't work. So then he started exp realty completely everybody working from home. He said this can work because there's no big upfront costs and there's no recurring costs and because of that I can go ahead and invest back into the agents and that's how he started to grow and so to the.

29:22.49

wongga

Okay, okay.

29:28.10

John Tsai

Went public 2018 we went to ah Nasdaq and just ah this past may we had gone to small cap s and p 600 so it's it's it's pretty amazing. What um what he has been able to do and you know and being in my my role.

29:37.99

wongga

Wow.

29:47.43

John Tsai

I Basically get access to a billionaire I talk to them all the time and just it's It's a no-brainer to be working with someone like that and just feeling blessed of course, but you know the model again is not for everyone. But I think if you see.

29:48.83

wongga

Yes.

30:03.95

John Tsai

What it has to provide in terms of benefits. It really is a no brainer but I would say this. It's about the people. It's about the relationships at the end of day just like your customers right? and a lot of times people don't come to Exp for exp.

30:15.73

wongga

Okay, yes.

30:22.43

John Tsai

I mean it's just to add a benefit but people come to exp because of me people come to eexp and I came to exp because of the people that I met Brent go Cliff Freeman christian bear Steve Married all these great people and now I have people like render and raj I mean these are just amazing people.

30:25.10

wongga

Right.

30:41.46

John Tsai

Right? And then we're we're with the platform that really benefits us financially. So it's a no brainer but it starts with the people first. Yeah.

30:46.88

wongga

Yeah, yeah, it's all a win-win. You know, Um, one of the questions I I wanted to ask um was other businesses even not even in real estate. You know how could a greater emphasis on collaboration over competition even reshape. Other business practices in your opinion.

31:05.55

John Tsai

In my opinion I think that it has to all be Collaboration. You know when when you share the pie right? You think it gets smaller but when you share the pie. The pie actually gets bigger. And that's how business works right? and when we all win we win big but it doesn't have to be if I win then you have to lose We can all win and why not.

31:33.45

wongga

Right? Yeah and I think what you're alluding to is you know,? let's say you have a very small industry and you've got 3 or 4 main players in a city in a market and they're not collaborating. Okay, that's fine and maybe. Like property management actually used to be like this right? It was all done in the backrooms of realty offices. It was kind of like the you know ugly stepchild type of ah if you like that example and now that there's more collaboration with my professional peers.

31:52.87

John Tsai

Are there.

32:06.28

wongga

Property management is starting to you know it's a licensed regulated industry. You know the reputation is getting better and that's attracting more clients instead of wanting to self-manage just as an example for 1 industry so I can see what you're saying by increasing the service levels.

32:11.30

John Tsai

Um, um.

32:19.34

John Tsai

Um, um.

32:23.90

wongga

By collaborating by you know, even getting some marketing ideas together. You can almost change an entire industry make the market bigger which is your pie analogy.

32:32.21

John Tsai

Exactly and I think sometimes friendly competition is good. We all you know have to level up right? And um I think you know if it's like.

32:36.94

wongga

Yes.

32:44.20

John Tsai

In the analogy of sports. It only has to be 1 there only can be 1 winner and if you're if you're second your last right? but in business if you're second you're making you're making good money. You're feeding your family and if you level each other up I mean that's all good. So again. We can all win and I think business has to be win-win all the time.

33:01.38

wongga

Yep.

33:07.52

wongga

I agree so looking ahead then for Xp um, how do you see this philosophy of collaborative collaboration further influencing your e expp's um, reach and evolution.

33:21.70

John Tsai

Yeah I think we're going to see more and more collaboration at least, especially globally, we're doing a lot of joint ventures with a lot of brokerages to start the Exp expansion. Right now we're in 24 countries we're we're planning obviously planning to go all the countries but I do see that collaboration is where it's at and if we collaborate with each other within the company and you know with other brokerages we can all win. So that's what I see is like okay other brokerages. You know, start to collaborate with us. Um, join ventures with us and obviously we we want them to join us. But at the end of the day if we can help each other. We're collaborators not competitors. But even if you're at at a different brokerage. So either. They join us or they don't I mean I think the mentality is to go forward and contribute to each other because under the heavens we're all just one family right? If you really think about it. Why are we fighting against each other. We're all trying to do the best for our families and I think that's what.

34:26.38

wongga

Yes.

34:33.47

John Tsai

Yeah, exp is all about it's all about collaboration. It's all about culture. It's all about contribution and we're gonna take that forward and really expand and our goal is to get to you know in the next five years 500000 agents worldwide right now we're at 88000 and you know. If I had some saying and I'm gonna go beast mode. So if you are in any of the the canadian cities and I'll be seeing you soon. Hopefully I'll come back to Winnipeg to visit you Garrett and we'll look forward to seeing you on stage very soon.

35:00.58

wongga

Um, yeah, absolutely you know let's let's transition a little bit um because you know you mentioned travel and you've got a lot of experience working now meeting people across different provinces. What decisions. Do you think listeners can make that will lead to faster results in their specific businesses today.

35:25.28

John Tsai

Fast decisions in creating.

35:27.28

wongga

Like what kinds of decisions. Do you think will lead to faster results I Know it's It's kind of out there. But I you know? yeah.

35:34.50

John Tsai

Ah, this is this is good. This is good I would say decide to take quick actions and decide to realize that there is no magic pill the magic pill in real estate sales.

35:47.80

wongga

Here.

35:52.85

John Tsai

And in any sort of business I think is that there is no magic pill. You have to be willing to put in the work and decide today that you're willing to do what's hard if you're willing to do what's hard then business will be easy. But if you're only willing to do what's easy then business. And life will be really really hard so decide to make that quick decision that hey to realize I ain't in this for instant gratification I'm not in this to make a quick buck I'm in here for the long game so decide.

36:11.29

wongga

Yeah.

36:27.66

John Tsai

Quickly That's what you will do and be in it for the long haul and never quit.

36:33.86

wongga

Okay, well um, what do you wish you would have known before you started in the real estate business if you could look back and talk to your younger self.

36:41.20

John Tsai

I would say the only thing that I would tell my younger self is please enjoy the journey every single day because stuff's going to happen anyways and I don't know. Yeah. If. We're predestined to have a life that we have no matter how you look at it. It's just destined but the fun of it is you don't know you don't know that you're destined but you're supposed to have fun in the journey of life in the journey of success and becoming the best you can be. And this life but me chasing after 50 transactions hundred transactions $500000 one million dollars Two million dollars. It was all about chasing out there after that number but sometimes can be excruciatingly hard and painful when you have setbacks.

37:20.90

wongga

It's right.

37:38.40

John Tsai

But when you look at it as a journey then your life will be fun and every setback that you have is only an opportunity for you to become better version for your of yourself. So if I would tell my younger self. It'd be like just just have some fun today and have some fun every day.

37:53.86

wongga

Yeah, Embrace journey. Yeah.

37:57.58

John Tsai

Because embrace the journey I'll tell you this little story which I think is a great analogy is um, have you been been to Maui before.

38:04.59

wongga

Actually I went last year and I'm going again in January it's one of our favorite places. Yeah, it's very magical. yeah yes yeah I drove it myself.

38:08.74

John Tsai

Oh that place. The vibration is amazing. it's it's heavenly right so have you been to road to Hanna. Okay, you drove it yourself. Okay, so. Road to Hanna is like this winding road where it seems to go forever is 3 to 4 hours and um, my wife that day took the kids and went on this road to Hanna and she slept the whole way because she was so tired. The kids didn't sleep at night. The kids were staying awake with our friends the whole time and she slept the whole way and she only woke up when they got to Hanna but when she woke up she realized oh my gosh Hanna is like this dilapidated little village There's nothing. There.

38:49.81

wongga

A.

38:59.37

wongga

Yep, No yeah yeah.

39:01.24

John Tsai

But what was magical was the way to Hanna the road and the magic in the heaven is in the journey to that destination. So don't miss the journey on the way. So that's how I look at things now you know if I get any setbacks and but having a bad day. You know what? just enjoy it because that destination's gonna come no matter what anyways. So if I don't enjoy today then it won't matter so what? why have it be painful decide. Yeah.

39:31.27

wongga

You know I think yeah I would agree 100% too many people. Um and my dad was like this and I'll tell that story in a second. They're too focused on the end goal I'm going to what it like fill in the blank until whatever my dad.

39:43.13

John Tsai

Yeah.

39:46.10

wongga

Passed away from lung cancer when he was only 59 and he had 2 businesses serial entrepreneur and all I heard was you know and he was maybe six months away from early retirement. He was just getting everything set up and then boom 18 hour days and that's one of my biggest lessons is embrace today.

40:00.14

John Tsai

Ah.

40:05.42

wongga

And and have your goal. But yeah, you have to experience the pain and experience the joy you have to you know, live those moments Otherwise you might not get there which would be sad, but at least you're enjoying getting there.

40:15.58

John Tsai

Oh hundred percent wow and thank you for sharing that I'm sorry to hear that by the way for eating not quite quite actually pretty young.

40:22.45

wongga

Yeah, it's very young. Yeah I think about that because I'm 52 um where where would my life be if I was gone in 8 years and well I mean I had those two life scaries that I spoke about at the art gallery a few weeks ago. But.

40:35.56

John Tsai

Um, right.

40:39.41

wongga

You know enough about me as they say um I want to speak to you about your strengths as an entrepreneur. What would you say those are and how have you refined and improved those over the last you know 1520 years

40:51.40

John Tsai

I think I had this muscle of never give up I have this muscle of bouncing back whether I'm bouncing back quickly or slowly but I never stop moving Forward. So as an entrepreneur. Um you obviously when you fall down you need to pivot when you fall down then you can realize Okay, what are my opportunities to improve but sometimes when people fall down they take too long to get up the momentum is gone right? And that's why their trajectory is you know.

41:26.87

John Tsai

Because they gave up altogether that they're not successful. So I would say that you know I don't want to call myself successful. But I do my best every single day and I never ever gave up. In 2008 I was $80000 in debt adjusted for inflation. That's one hundred and thirty grand today just so you know um I had done no sales in six months during that period and as you know the world was falling apart right? But in fact that those six months have made me.

41:44.26

wongga

Here here.

41:52.53

wongga

Yes.

41:59.67

John Tsai

Ah, tough sob up here in my mind and I just never gave up and sure enough 2009 march I ended up doing 33 transactions in the last and nine months of the year and most of those calls were from friends and family that asked me hey John.

42:00.28

wongga

Yeah.

42:15.96

John Tsai

Can you come and list my hormone or can you represent me on a purchase and I said why did you pick me, they would always say in majority of the time you know what? you're only one of the last ah remaining real estate agent friends that I have so you know you don't have to be the most talented. You don't have to be the most skilled. Um.

42:28.10

wongga

Wow.

42:34.91

John Tsai

But if you just never gave up. You're gonna get rewarded. So I think if there's number 1 um, attribute that I have is the muscle of never give up never quit.

42:47.47

wongga

What would you say um, gets in the way of most entrepreneurs being successful.

42:50.48

John Tsai

Right now I would think in today's world is that they have too many options they have. There's too many magic pills out there offer to you to let you think that everything is easy right? So in.

43:03.15

wongga

A.

43:07.14

John Tsai

I see it in the real estate industry is that young kids that come in today. They're like okay well I can talk to 10 people today I can talk to 20 people today and you know pick up the phone book ah call somebody or. I can ah do this way and do some text startup or you know and there's an opportunity here. There's an opportunity here flip an an ft go into crypto or do some other thing and there's so many options out there for kids that they don't know how to focus anymore. It's not default to their. Own. But I think focus is the key to success focusing and never give up is really the key and so if you don't give up. You'll always succeed. That's what I think anyway. And that's why most people don't because they have too many options I had no options when I was $80000 in debt Garrett because I had no other skills and I think that's a blessing.

44:02.48

wongga

Yeah, no, we've all we've all been there. Successful people have to fall down before they can get up. You have to know failure before you can realize success I don't know anybody who is successful that has never failed because that's what teaches you how to be successful.

44:19.75

John Tsai

Um, that's true.

44:21.94

wongga

I Don't know a single person has has not had a low point that's successful.

44:26.61

John Tsai

Yeah I don't I don't know anybody actually unless they're you know, um, born with a silver spoon and then they just took it to another level I don't I don't know but I personally don't know anybody and I was just sitting down with Glen the other day. Our our Ceo he hadn't been successful all pretty much all throughout until he started. Yeah ep and it was a grind to start with ep also right he had he had made money lost all of it and then with e xp finally now he's you know, well on his way to generation wealth.

44:49.30

wongga

Hey.

45:00.42

wongga

Obviously yeah, yeah, amazing. Well we're almost at the end of the podcast. Um and I like to ask every guest this question. So I'd like to hear what you have to say this is the investing to win podcast.

45:01.54

John Tsai

Yeah, so.

45:11.34

John Tsai

Um, sure.

45:15.29

wongga

How do you Define success and what does winning look like for you.

45:20.42

John Tsai

How do I define success success is a progressive realization of worthwhile goal or objective. So it's all about the journey of who you become in the process. Because I can give you give someone a million dollars and if they don't know how to earn that money. They'll lose it all right? But right now if you take away all my money I know how to make it back and that's worthwhile. So it's really the journey of becoming ah the best you can be every single day and that's how you win how you win is doing what you're supposed to do every single day building that confidence and building a better you every single day just one percent better progressing every single day then you're successful. And that's how you win you don't have to compete against anybody else to win you just need to be better than who you were yesterday and I think that's worthwhile in in chasing after is a better you right? And at the end of the day if I left a mark in this world. That I contributed to others with who I'm being and I think that's successful as well and then they always say ah the secret to living is giving right? So if I'm just here. Um, you know, just for myself and making money for myself and being successful with myself.

46:53.43

John Tsai

And had nobody to share with nobody to contribute to that's also failure right? So I think becoming a better you and contributing to the world you win and you're successful.

47:04.82

wongga

Love it all right? Well let's cap it there I don't think we could do any better than those last words. So thank you again for coming on the show and thank you, you know? maybe I'll I'll be by Bc one of these days and I'll be visiting you instead you come to Winnipeg.

47:21.10

John Tsai

Absolutely I look forward to seeing you soon. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you for allowing me to like get all my thoughts out and and really appreciate the questions. But hopefully yeah, we'll see you in Vancouver or in Winnipeg. Thank you.

47:34.69

wongga

All right? Thank you John take care.