Garret (00:37.42)

Cough

Garret (00:58.22)

In this episode, I'm going to go through the nightmare I experienced of delays and back and forth when I wanted to convert our single -family rental property into a two -unit dwelling. My hope, by the time you finish listening or watching, is that you can arm yourself with the best and quickest way to get your permits approved for your project. I know that some of my audience have heard some of these earlier updates on this project, the Secondary Suite Project.

Garret B Angle (00:58.254)

In this episode, I'm going to go through the nightmare experience of the lays and back and forth when I wanted to convert our single -family rental property into a two -unit dwelling. My hope by the time you finish listening or watching is that you can arm yourself with the best and quickest way to get your permits approved for your project.

I know that some of my audience have heard some of these earlier updates on this project, the Secondary Suite project, but now that we finally have our permit approved and the project is underway, I'm going to be going through a complete summary of this process, plus a few unexpected issues and emergencies that happened while I was waiting for my permits. Now, if you're listening on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, you'll certainly be able to get the entire story, but I'd encourage you to watch the episode on the YouTube channel, just because I'm going to be showing my

Garret (01:25.42)

But now that we finally have our permit approved and the project is underway, I'm going to be going through a complete summary of this process, plus a few unexpected issues and emergencies that happened while I was waiting for my permits. Now, if you're listening on Spotify or Apple podcasts, you'll certainly be able to get the entire story, but I'd encourage you to watch the episode on our YouTube channel, just because I'm going to be showing my actual permits, the documentation I went through and my floor plans. Let's get right into it.

Garret B Angle (01:48.88)

actual permits, the documentation I went through, and my floor plans. Let's get right into it. So I'm going to talk about the why of the project, why a secondary suite. When you think about interest rates right now, especially at the time of this recording,

Garret (01:57.1)

So I'm gonna talk about the why of the project, why a secondary suite. When you think about interest rates right now, especially at the time of this recording, interest rates went up. So if you were lucky enough to have a rental property where you had two or 3 % interest rate a few years ago, and now your rental property is coming up for renewal with your mortgage, you're not cash flowing. And while I always say,

Garret B Angle (02:09.678)

Interest rates went up. So if you were lucky enough to have a rental property where you have two or three percent interest rate a few years ago, and now your rental property is coming up for renewal with your mortgage, you're not cash flowing. And while I always say cash flow isn't the most important thing, it's usually the principal pay down and the appreciation of the property and the market value. You know, we're talking about five, six, seven hundred dollars sometimes with these high interest rates.

Garret (02:25.836)

cashflow isn't the most important thing. It's usually the principal pay down and the appreciation of the property and the market value. You know, we're talking about five, six, $700 sometimes with these high interest rates. So it's one thing to already own a property. It's another thing to buy a property. How do you get into it? A brand new property or a rental or a burr when you can't even get it to cashflow. So enter.

Garret B Angle (02:39.632)

So it's one thing to already own a property, it's another thing to buy a property. How do you get into it? A brand new property or a rental or a burr, when you can't even get it to cash flow.

So enter the secondary suite. So a secondary suite, as you all can guess, is what some people refer to as an in -law suite. It's usually in a basement or a second story. But I wanna specify this because here in the city of Winnipeg at least, where I'm situated, we have duplexes, we have triplexes, we have single -family homes. A duplex, by that definition, houses two families.

Garret (02:54.604)

the secondary suite. So a secondary suite, as you all can guess, is what some people prefer, you know, referred to as an in -law suite. It's usually in a basement or a second story, but I wanna specify this because here in the city of Winnipeg, at least, where I'm situated, we have duplexes, we have triplexes, we have single -family homes. A duplex, by that definition, houses two families.

Garret B Angle (03:23.088)

The really, really strange thing, especially in Winnipeg here, is that if you have a duplex, or rather if you have a single -family home and you want to convert it to a duplex, you actually have to go through zoning. Now, zoning approval means that you have to involve the neighbourhood, you have to put up those yellow signs, there has to be a community vote on it, or at least they're going to hear about it at council. And council is then deciding if they're going to

Garret (03:23.34)

The really, really strange thing, especially in Winnipeg here, is that if you have a duplex, or rather if you have a single family home and you wanna convert it to a duplex, you actually have to go through zoning, okay? Now, zoning approval means that you have to involve the neighborhood, you know, you have to put up those yellow signs, there has to be a community vote on it, or at least they're gonna hear about it at council. And council's then deciding,

if they're going to grant you your zoning. When you talk about a secondary suite, it's strange, like I said, now you're talking about a single family home that has a legal secondary suite. Two families, but you can't call it a duplex because it's not as duplex by zoning. So the only thing that you really need to do is, and I make it sound easy, but that's the whole purpose of this podcast.

Garret B Angle (03:53.008)

they're going to grant you your zoning. When you talk about a secondary suite it's strange like I said now you're talking about a single -family home that has a legal secondary suite. Two families but you can't call it a duplex because it's not as duplex by zoning. So the only thing that you really need to do is and I make it sound easy but that's the whole purpose of this podcast.

All you need to do is just submit a permit if it gets approved for your secondary suite. You're away to the races, you don't have to go through zoning, you don't have to go through angry neighbours, you don't have to worry about any of that. All that community stuff is bypassed with the secondary suite. Okay, so why would I want to?

Garret (04:19.628)

All you need to do is just submit a permit if it gets approved for your secondary suite, you're a way to the races, you don't have to go through zoning, you don't have to go through angry neighbors, you don't have to worry about any of that. All that community stuff is bypassed with the secondary suite. Okay, so why would I want to?

Garret B Angle (04:40.558)

I mean, I think it's obvious when I'm going to go through it anyways, just because this is a podcast about learning. The extra revenue of a second unit in the building. So if you think about, so this project that I'm going to be outlining, let's say that I could probably command 1850 in red. Okay, maybe even 2000. It's a nice neighborhood, but let's just say 1850 for decent math.

Garret (04:40.652)

I mean, I think it's obvious, but I'm going to go through it anyways, just because this is a podcast about learning. The extra revenue of a second unit in the building. So if you think about, so this project that I'm going to be outlining, let's say that I could probably command 1850 in rent, okay. Maybe even 2000, it's a nice neighborhood, but let's just say 1850 for decent math. 1850 for the entire house.

Garret B Angle (05:07.085)

1850 for the entire house and a finished basement.

Garret (05:09.804)

and a finished basement. If we take the basement and we convert it into a secondary suite, now I can't charge $1 ,850 for just the upstairs because it's just one floor, it doesn't have the basement. But you know what, I can charge about $1 ,500. $1 ,314, $1 ,500. So let's use $1 ,500 for easy math. The basement unit, which is gonna be a two -bedroom unit, brand new renovated, new construction.

Garret B Angle (05:11.822)

If we take the basement and we convert it into a secondary suite, now I can't charge $1 ,850 for just the upstairs because it's just one floor. It doesn't have the basement. But you know what? I can charge about $1 ,500. $1 ,314, $1 ,500. So let's use $1 ,500 for easy math. The basement unit, which is going to be a two bedroom unit, brand new renovated, new construction, quartz countertops, is going to command the very top

Garret (05:39.02)

Courts Countertops is gonna command the very top of the market right now. Let's call it 11, 12, 1250. Even if we just say 1100 at the very bottom end, and I know for sure, at least at the time of this recording, we can get 1250, but 1100 plus let's say 15 is already $2600 compared to the 1850 plus utilities that I was going to charge for the entire house. So you can already do the math. Realistically here,

Garret B Angle (05:41.776)

of the market right now, let's call it 11, 12, 1250. Even if we just say 1100 at the very bottom end, and I know for sure at least at the time of this recording, we can get 1250, but 1100 plus let's say 15 is already $2600 compared to the 1850 plus utilities that I was going to charge for the entire house. So you can already do the math. Realistically here, I think I'm gonna be ahead by about eight or $900.

Garret (06:08.332)

I think I'm gonna be ahead by about eight or $900. Now with high interest rates at that five or $600 extra payment, I'm still going to cashflow three, $400. And then if or when the interest rates get back to quote unquote normal, I might be cash flowing eight, 900, maybe even $1 ,000. So for me, it future proofs the purchase of the property.

Garret B Angle (06:11.696)

Now, with high interest rates at that $500 or $600 extra payment, I'm still going to cash flow $300, $400, and then if or when the interest rates get back to quote unquote normal, I might be cash flowing $800, $900, maybe even $1 ,000. So for me, if future proves the purchase of the property, it increases the value because obviously a two unit dwelling is worth a lot more than a single family home.

Garret (06:35.084)

it increases the value because obviously a two unit dwelling is worth a lot more than a single family home. So let's talk about the target property. Now, I managed to get a phone call from my realtor, excellent realtor, and he said, you know what, I'm gonna be listing this property in a couple of days, but I'm taking through, you know, how would you like to go through, I can take you through this property. So I looked at it.

Garret B Angle (06:41.616)

So let's talk about the target property.

Now, I managed to get a phone call from my realtor, excellent realtor, and he said, you know what, I'm going to be listing this property in a couple of days, but I'm taking through, you know, how would you like to go through? I can take you through this property. So I looked at it. It actually happened to be in a neighborhood where I grew up, maybe a block and a half from my childhood home. So I knew the area extremely well. I went to the elementary school a block away. I went to the junior high three blocks away.

Garret (07:01.516)

It actually happened to be in a neighborhood where I grew up, maybe a block and a half from my childhood home. So I knew the area extremely well. I went to the elementary school a block away. I went to the junior high three blocks away and I went to the high school four blocks away. So that ticks the checkbox for me. I already know the neighborhood. So now I needed to do a walkthrough. Now when you think about...

Garret B Angle (07:15.12)

and I went to the high school four blocks away. So that ticks the checkbox for me. I already know the neighborhood. So now I needed to do a walkthrough. Now when you think about all of you investors that are listening or watching this podcast, anytime you get an off -market opportunity, you don't have a lot of time.

Garret (07:29.74)

all of you investors that are listening or watching this podcast, anytime you get an off -market opportunity, you don't have a lot of time. When we're talking about a quick flip or maybe just, you know, you're gonna be burying something and you can kind of estimate value, but what do you do when you're trying to estimate exactly how much a basement's going to cost? Or for that matter, you know, how would you, what is your process for walking through a property and determining exactly how much

Garret B Angle (07:37.71)

When we're talking about a quick flip or maybe just, you know, you're going to be burning something and you can kind of estimate value. But what do you do when you're trying to estimate exactly how much a basement is going to cost? Or for that matter, you know, how would you, what is your process for walking through a property and determining exactly how much the renovations are going to be? Now, there's a few ways that I know investors can do this. You can take a contractor with you or two or three through the property with you.

Garret (07:59.34)

the renovations are going to be. Now, there's a few ways that I know investors can do this. You can take a contractor with you or two or three through the property with you, which is fine. But if you're doing things quickly or maybe you are wholesaling or you're trying to walk through a property where it's just, you don't have time to get a contractor there, you might wanna do what I'm doing. So.

Garret B Angle (08:07.664)

which is fine, but if you're doing things quickly or maybe you are wholesaling or you're trying to walk through a property where it's just you don't have time to get a contractor there, you might want to do what I'm doing. So we use, I mean you can do this on a spreadsheet, we use something called monday .com.

Garret (08:25.452)

We use, I mean, you can do this on a spreadsheet. We use something called monday .com. Basically what we do is we have calculations running on a spreadsheet. So you can even do this on Microsoft Excel or Google Sheets. And then the calculator is based on prices that my property management company has been able to pay for different categories, windows, doors, electrical services.

Garret B Angle (08:29.742)

Basically, what we do is we have calculations running on a spreadsheet. So you can even do this on Microsoft Excel or Google Sheets. And then the calculator is based on prices that my property management company has been able to pay for different categories, windows, doors, electrical services, plumbing, brand new kitchens, cabinets, roof, siding, driveways, garages, you name it.

Garret (08:53.164)

plumbing, brand new kitchens, cabinets, roof, siding, driveways, garages, you name it. And because we've been in business for 25 years, I basically just had to go through every category into our company's historical pricing data, put that into my spreadsheet. So if I had a window job that had six regular windows on a main floor, and it was just for easy math, $12 ,000, well then in my spreadsheet,

Garret B Angle (08:59.696)

And because we've been in business for 25 years, I basically just had to go through every category into our company's historical pricing data, put that into my spreadsheet. So if I had a window job that had six regular windows on the main floor, and it was just for easy math, $12 ,000, well then in my spreadsheet, I'm saying that the window of average size, say two feet by three feet, three feet by four feet is gonna be $2 ,000.

Garret (09:21.836)

I'm saying that a window of average size, say two feet by three feet, three feet by four feet is gonna be $2 ,000. So in that one column, you have window, second column, $2 ,000. And then you have your quantity. And then obviously in the fourth column, you're gonna have your total. So it allows you to go through a property extremely quickly, count out how many windows we have, how many doors we have.

Garret B Angle (09:29.615)

So in that one column you have window, second column $2 ,000 and then you have your quantity and then obviously in the fourth column you're going to have your total. So it allows you to go through a property extremely quickly, count out how many windows we have, how many doors we have, go through with square footage calculations on painting, on drywall, on flooring and so I went through and I decided that this is going to be a really good project.

Garret (09:50.124)

go through with square footage calculations on painting, on drywall, on flooring. And so I went through and I decided that this is gonna be a really good project. Now the benefits of this particular property, number one, the upstairs was almost brand new renovated. I couldn't believe it. Normally when you go into these types of single family homes that were built in the mid 60s, you've got an old kitchen.

Garret B Angle (09:59.536)

Now the benefits of this particular property, number one, the upstairs was almost brand new renovated. I couldn't believe it. Normally when you go into these types of single -family homes that were built in the mid -60s, you've got an old kitchen, original cabinets, maybe some linoleum or vinyl on the floor.

Garret (10:17.036)

original cabinets, maybe some linoleum or vinyl on the floor. Carpet, maybe original hardwoods underneath the carpet. This property had maple cabinets, had granite countertops. The bathroom was a little bit older. It needed a, you know, a little bit of work. It looked like they had started painting. And the bedrooms, I mean, they were blue, but they were almost rent ready, you know, depending on how, how.

Garret B Angle (10:22.702)

Maybe original hardwoods underneath the carpet. This property had maple cabinets, had granite countertops. The bathroom was a little bit older. It needed a little bit of work. It looked like they had started painting. And the bedrooms, I mean they were blue, but they were almost ready, depending on how much I wanted the renovations to look and the quality of them. And older windows, but certainly functional. So,

Garret (10:45.996)

much I wanted the renovations to look and the quality of them. And older windows, but certainly functional. So to me, I'm looking at the upstairs main floor unit that was going to be unit one. And obviously the basement was going to be unit two is almost ready to go. So I'm thinking, hey, we can even rent this thing out, which is going to cover my holding costs. So the other thing that I liked about this property is that,

Garret B Angle (10:52.608)

So to me, I'm looking at the upstairs main floor unit that was going to be unit one and obviously the basement was going to be unit two is almost ready to go. So I'm thinking, hey, we can even rent this thing out, which is going to cover my holding costs. So the other thing that I liked about this property is that even though it was a 1960s typical 1100 square foot box, those properties were notorious for having a back door.

Garret (11:13.516)

even though it was a 1960s typical 1100 square foot box, those properties were notorious for having a back door and then a little landing. And if you ever lived in one of these houses, and I did, like I said, it was the same neighborhood as my childhood home, basically come into the landing, you've got two steps to go up into the main kitchen, which is your main floor, and you make a right turn, 90 degrees, and the stairs are right there. So growing up,

Garret B Angle (11:22.464)

and then a little landing.

And if you ever lived in one of these houses, and I did, like I said, it was the same neighborhood as my childhood home, basically come into the landing, you've got two steps to go up into the main kitchen, which is your main floor, and you make a right turn, 90 degrees, and the stairs are right there. So growing up, we hated that. You'd have people coming over onto a little landing that's maybe three feet by three feet. You've got three or four people there, you know, after a holiday gathering. And, you know, some people, literally, or kids, could

Garret (11:42.828)

We hated that. You'd have people coming over onto a little landing that's maybe three feet by three feet. You've got three or four people there, you know, after a holiday gathering. And, you know, some people, literally our kids, could fall down those stairs. But the blessing for a secondary suite here is that that back door, all we need to do, remember I said two steps up to the kitchen? Well, that can become a door into the main floor. So that's the back door.

Garret B Angle (11:55.232)

could fall down those stairs. But the blessing for a secondary suite here is that that back door, all we need to do, remember I said two steps up to the kitchen? Well, that can become a door into the main floor, so that's the back door. And then you just make a right turn down the stairs, and downstairs we would have the independent door for the secondary suite. Perfect.

Garret (12:10.54)

and then you just make a right turn down the stairs and downstairs we would have the independent door for the secondary suite. Perfect. The third thing I really liked about this property is even though it had a back lane, it also had a front drive. There was about five or six properties on this street that had a front drive. Now, one of the requirements is I'm going to go into in a little bit when we go through the documentation from the city of Winnipeg is that you need to...

Garret B Angle (12:18.126)

The third thing I really liked about this property is even though it had a back lane, it also had a front drive. There was about five or six properties on this street that had a front drive. Now, one of the requirements is I'm going to go into in a little bit when we go through the documentation from the City of Winnipeg is that you need two separate parking spots, one for the main floor unit and one for the other unit. I could certainly, you know, because it was a back lane, you know, take

Garret (12:39.756)

separate parking spots one for the main floor unit and one for the other unit. I could certainly you know because it was a back lane you know take down some fencing and make two parking spots but it just works that much better to give the front driveway to the main floor unit and the back driveway to the basement unit. So two driveways a main floor that was almost ready to go and a perfect layout for my secondary suite.

Garret B Angle (12:48.032)

take down some fencing and make two parking spots. But it just works that much better to give the front driveway to the main floor unit and the back driveway to the basement unit. So two driveways, a main floor that was almost ready to go, and a perfect layout for my secondary suite.

So let's talk about the challenges in secondary suites, particularly when you're targeting an older building like this. And that is egress. We have egress windows. Now, I should mention that...

Garret (13:09.004)

So let's talk about the challenges, okay, in secondary suites, particularly when you're targeting an older building like this. And that is egress. We have egress windows. Now, I should mention that...

Garret B Angle (13:45.39)

Now, I should mention...

Garret (13:45.644)

Now, I should mention that, you know, you have an older property, smaller windows in the basement, egress, of course, fire escape. So the, you have to have a window in a bedroom that's able to, you know, be a certain size. That's what they call egress. So therefore in the basement of this property, there are five windows. Now they're not all in a great place. You know, there's one window at the bottom of the stairs. Well, obviously you're not gonna,

Garret B Angle (13:47.47)

that you have an older property, smaller windows in the basement, egress of course, fire escape. So you have to have a window in a bedroom that's able to be a certain size, that's what they call egress. So therefore in the basement of this property, there are five windows. Now they're not all in a great place. There's one window at the bottom of the stairs. Well, obviously you're not gonna make a base or sort of basement bed.

Garret (14:15.34)

make a base, or sorry, a basement bedroom there. So on the far, I guess it would be the south wall, there are two windows side by side, separated by maybe a foot, okay, maybe 18 inches. So those were my target windows. I knew that I had to then have somebody cut out the concrete, put in bigger windows, dig down a little bit more. So that means for an egress window in the basement,

Garret B Angle (14:17.376)

bedroom there. So on the far, I guess it would be the south wall, there are two windows side by side separated by maybe a foot, okay, maybe 18 inches. So those were my target windows. I knew that I had to then have somebody cut out the concrete, put in bigger windows.

dig down a little bit more, so that means for an egress window in the basement, you're cutting out the concrete of the foundation itself, you're digging down and you're putting in a proper window well. Engineering is involved, you have to have permits, you have to have a stamp drawing from an engineer, but it is possible to do an egress window. So because those two windows on that south wall were where they were, that was actually where we started, or where I started rather, in determining where those bedrooms are going to be. So window, window.

Garret (14:44.524)

you're cutting out the concrete of the foundation itself, you're digging down and you're putting in a proper window well. Engineering is involved, you have to have permits, you have to have a stamp drawing from an engineer, but it is possible to do an egress window. So because those two windows on that south wall were where they were, that was actually where we started or where I started rather in determining where those bedrooms are going to be. So window, window, dividing wall, bedrooms.

Garret B Angle (15:10.368)

dividing wall dead rooms. After that, then I started to look at the best layout for this unit. There was one other challenge and that is, or two rather, where the plumbing stack was and the breaker panel. Now the...

Garret (15:12.652)

After that, then I started to look at the best layout for this unit. And there was one other challenge, and that is, or two rather, where the plumbing stack was and the breaker panel. Now, the...

Garret B Angle (15:30.382)

Now, the requirements also say that each tenant must be able to have independent access to reset their own breakers. Meaning, I can't have this breaker panel that's in the basement that controls the upstairs as well in the secondary suite's closet. We have to designate that into a common area.

Garret (15:30.7)

Now the requirements also say that each tenant must be able to have independent access to reset their own breakers. Meaning I can't have this breaker panel that's in the basement that controls the upstairs as well in the secondary suites closet. We have to designate that into a common area. The other problem is that we have a floor drain and we have a stack that's also

Garret B Angle (15:53.934)

The other problem is that we have a floor drain and we have a stack that's also sort of along this big corridor where we were hoping to be able to put the bathroom in the kitchen. Having a floor drain right in the middle of a kitchen or right in the middle of an entryway just wasn't going to work for me. But on the other side, there was this furnace. So, I mean, layout wise, and I'm hoping you guys take a page out of my book here.

Garret (16:00.076)

sort of along this big corridor where we were hoping to be able to put the bathroom in the kitchen. Having a floor drain right in the middle of a kitchen or right in the middle of an entryway just wasn't going to work for me. But on the other side, there was this furnace. So, I mean, layout wise, and I'm hoping you guys take a page out of my book here, you can't be confined by traditional thinking and you can't, number one, don't let,

Garret B Angle (16:23.118)

You can't be confined by traditional thinking. You can't, number one, don't let any contractors or, I mean, they all have good intentions, but I had my contractors there and they're like, this is the only spot that we can put the door. And this is the only spot that we can do this. And I'm like, well, there's a floor drain here. we can get away with that by just covering it. So when you're doing a project like this, you have to think again, if you were renting it, would you want to, you know, you've got to kind of close your eyes.

Garret (16:29.42)

any contractors or, I mean, they all have good intentions, but I had my contractors there and they're like, this is the only spot that we can put the door. And this is the only spot that we can do this. And I'm like, well, there's a floor drain here. we can get away with that by just covering it. So when you're doing a project like this, you have to think again, if you were renting it, would you want to, you know, you've got to kind of close your eyes and you're going to open the door of your brand new unit, toss the keys onto the table.

Garret B Angle (16:53.024)

and you're going to open the door of your branding unit, toss the keys onto the table, look down and you have a floor drain right in your entryway, reminding you that you're staying in a basement where something could flood at any moment, right? Super backup. Not ideal. So I tried very, very hard to look at different options and I did find it right at the bottom of the stairs.

Garret (16:59.116)

look down and you have a floor drain right in your entryway, reminding you that you're staying in a basement where something could flood at any moment, right? Sewer back up. Not ideal. So I tried very, very hard to look at different options and I did find it right at the bottom of the stairs. And I'll be, I'm showing this layout, but right at the bottom of the stairs, you turn left, there's the furnace room there. So we've got a furnace and a hot water tank.

Garret B Angle (17:18.926)

and I'll be showing this layout, but right at the bottom of the stairs, if you turn left, there's a furnace room there, so we've got a furnace and a hot water tank. So that's where the contractor said we can't go through there, there can't be a door there. We have to go through the other way where there's the plumbing stack and the floor drain. So after thinking about it and thinking outside the box, I'm like, okay, well, we have an old...

Garret (17:27.692)

So that's where the contractors said, we can't go through there. There can't be a door there. We have to go through the other way where there's the plumbing stack and the floor drain. So after thinking about it and thinking outside the box, I'm like, okay, well, we have an old furnace. We have an old hot water tank. Why can't I just move those since I'm going to be changing them anyways? We can move them anywhere we want as long as they're going to line up with the main plenum and staying underneath the main beam of the house.

Garret B Angle (17:42.702)

furnace, we have an old hot water tank, why can't I just move those since I'm going to be changing them anyways? We can move them anywhere we want as long as they're going to line up with the main plenum and staying underneath the main beam of the house. Okay, so now I have my answer. So I started drawing a sketch of what I was going to be doing.

Garret (17:56.812)

Okay, so now I had my answer. So I started drawing a sketch of what I was gonna be doing. The kitchen couldn't really stay near the stack because we also had issues where that was going to be where the common area was, okay. But really, I mean, there was a wet bar in the corner, but I also wanted my door there. So as you can see, as I'm showing with my layouts here, I mean, really when you're talking about plumbing,

Garret B Angle (18:03.31)

the kitchen couldn't really stay near the stack because we also had, issues where that was going to be where the common area was. Okay. But really, I mean, there was a wet bar in corner, but I also wanted my door there. so as you can see, as I'm showing with my, my layouts here, I mean, really when you're talking about plumbing, it's really as simple as jackhammering the drain into the floor. And then all you need to do is put your.

Garret (18:27.373)

It's really as simple as jack hammering a drain into the floor and then all you need to do is put your pipes in. Supply pipes are gonna come from the ceiling and go through walls, not a big deal. Permit concrete and then you'll never know it was any different. So I already had to build that into the budget. So form over function. So we budgeted the jack hammer, running new plumbing, et cetera, et cetera. So I evaluated the property.

Garret B Angle (18:33.216)

pipes in, supply pipes are going to come from the ceiling and go through walls, not a big deal, permit, concrete, and then you'll never know it was any different. So I already had to build that into the budget. So form over function, so we budgeted the jackhammer, running new plumbing, etc. etc. So I evaluated the property, I used my spreadsheet,

Garret (18:56.3)

I used my spreadsheet, I did a budget, the numbers made sense. I got an offer accepted and then went through my project process and I wrote up a proposal for my private lender. Now, this is another tip for you. If you're using private lenders and I had a podcast, I don't know, maybe three or four episodes ago, I would encourage you to listen to that because we go through what they call A lender, B lender, C lender.

Garret B Angle (18:59.278)

did a budget, the numbers made sense, I got an offer accepted, and I went through my project process and I wrote up a proposal for my private lender. Now...

This is another tip for you. If you're using private lenders, and I had a podcast, I don't know, maybe three or four episodes ago, I would encourage you to listen to that because we go through what they call A lender, B lender, C lender, and private lenders. And private money is a little bit more expensive with the trust company and such. But we're talking about a very fast process here. It's not like I was going to be keeping this for years and years and years at a nine or 10 %

Garret (19:26.604)

and private lenders. And private money is a little bit more expensive with the trust company and such. But we're talking about a very fast process here. It's not like I was going to be keeping this for years and years and years at a nine or 10 % interest rate. And I liked this particular lender because they trust that I do very good work and I've always been on time and our inspections are always good.

Garret B Angle (19:40.64)

interest rate. And I like this particular lender because they trust that I do very good work and I've always been on time and our inspections are always good. So they're always have been willing to lend me the money for the renovations itself as well. So I didn't have to worry about just the property mortgage and then go to a capital investor to try to get money to fund the renovation.

Garret (19:54.316)

So they're always have been willing to lend me the money for the renovations itself as well. So I didn't have to worry about just the property mortgage and then go to a capital investor to try to get money to fund the renovation. So in my proposal, and again, this is a pro tip for you guys. You don't just wanna make a phone call, send an email and say, hey, Joe lender, I have a property and this is what I'm gonna be doing with it.

Garret B Angle (20:07.918)

So in my proposal, and again this is a pro tip for you guys, you don't just want to make a phone call, send an email and say, hey Joe Lender, I have a property and this is what I'm going to be doing with it, will you lend me a mortgage? I did a complete business plan, color, PDF, and I presented to them, okay? Because it's a business plan. I had a description of the project.

Garret (20:23.82)

would you lend me some, a mortgage? I did a complete business plan, color, PDF, and I presented it to them, okay? Because it's a business plan. I had a description of the project, description of the neighborhood, the current value of what I purchased it for, the scope of renovations, my entire budget, my cost overruns, that could happen, my ARV or my after renovated value, and I had that as verified by, you know,

Garret B Angle (20:36.814)

description of the neighborhood, the current value of what I purchased it for, the scope of renovations, my entire budget, my cost overruns, that could happen, my ARB or my after renovated value and I had that as verified by you know three independent appraisers and renters because the lender wants to know what the value is going to be because there's nothing that can really I mean how do they know right they have to base because they're not using a typical

Garret (20:53.612)

three independent appraisers and realtors because the lender wants to know what the value is going to be because there's nothing that can really, I mean, how do they know, right? They have to base, because they're not using a typical appraisal, a lot of private lenders are gonna look at the scope of your project and then they're gonna honestly drive by the property and they're gonna look at your credibility as an investor, you know, whether it's your first time, third time or multiple times like I've had with this lender.

Garret B Angle (21:06.72)

appraisal, a lot of private lenders are going to look at the scope of your project and then they're going to honestly drive by the property and they're going to look at your credibility as an investor, you know, whether it's your first time, third time or multiple times like I've had with this lender.

So my intention was to have them cover the entire construction with progress, inspections, draws. Now here's a pro tip for you. When you're drawing up your offer to purchase, this is what I like to do. I put a condition for two extra visits to the property prior to possession. And to make it easy because it's not like you want somebody to say, I'm not going to be.

Garret (21:24.268)

So my intention was to have them cover the entire construction with progress, inspections, draws. Now, here's a pro tip for you. When you're drawing up your offer to purchase, this is what I like to do. I put a condition for two extra visits to the property prior to possession. And to make it easy, because it's not like you want somebody to say, I'm not going to be allowing you to go in alone.

Garret B Angle (21:51.342)

allowing you to go in alone, I'll say with the presence of a realtor. It can be their realtor, it could be my buyer's realtor, doesn't matter. I want to make them comfortable. I like to work in those two visits so I can take my contractors through. Keep in mind that at this point I had my spreadsheets and my costs which were fairly accurate but I mean with you know it could vary by quite a bit. So on these two visits now I'm going to be going

Garret (21:53.612)

I'll say with the presence of a realtor. Okay, it can be their realtor, it can be my buyer's realtor, doesn't matter. You wanna make them comfortable. I like to work in those two visits so I can take my contractors through. Keep in mind that at this point, I had my spreadsheets and my costs, which were fairly accurate, but I mean, with, you know, it could vary by quite a bit. So on these two visits, now I'm going to be going through,

Garret B Angle (22:21.248)

going through and having all of my contractors, windows, doors, electricians, giving me actual quotations. And by having those actual quotations, my hope was that I would have my costs, submit my budget, get my mortgage financing approved, but then also get ahead and submit my permit, my secondary suite permit, so then I could hit the ground running by the time possession came.

Garret (22:23.052)

and having all of my contractors, windows, doors, electricians, giving me actual quotations. And by having those actual quotations, my hope was that I would have my costs, submit my budget, get my mortgage financing approved, but then also get ahead and submit my permit, my secondary suite permit, so then I could hit the ground running by the time possession came. So let's go through.

Garret B Angle (22:48.782)

So let's go through at least with the city of Winnipeg because I believe that that's why you're watching me do this video and this podcast and why you stuck with me this far. So we have a two permit process to go through for a secondary suite. Still easier than going through zoning, but there are a few little contingencies that I'm going to explain. So the first step is called a development permit.

Garret (22:50.988)

at least with the city of Winnipeg, because I believe that that's why you're watching me do this video and this podcast and why you stuck with me this far. So we have a two permit process to go through for a secondary suite. Still easier than going through zoning, but there are a few little contingencies that I'm going to explain. So the first step is called a development permit. Okay, you need to get a development permit.

Garret B Angle (23:16.814)

Okay, you need to get a development permit and then you need them to go through your building permit. The development permit is kind of what you're doing. Okay, and then the building permit is the how of the project. Now,

Garret (23:20.204)

and then you need then to go through your building permit. The development permit is kind of what you're doing, okay? And then the building permit is the how of the project. Now, when you go through the City of Winnipeg site, it actually is quite good. And as you can see here, in scrolling through, you've got a bunch of different PDFs, there's information sheets explaining exactly what is allowed for a secondary suite.

Garret B Angle (23:33.166)

When you go through the city of Winnipeg site, it actually is quite good. And as you can see here, in scrolling through, you've got a bunch of different PDFs, there's information sheets explaining exactly what is allowed for a secondary suite. It explains the square footage calculations. It explains that you need barriers between your two units, you know, your main floor unit, your basement unit. You have to have a sound barrier, you have to have a fire.

Garret (23:49.964)

It explains the square footage calculations. It explains that you need barriers between your two units, you know, your main floor unit and your basement unit. You have to have a sound barrier. You have to have a fire or smoke barrier. There's a lot of things that you have there. What's really nice is they even have this little explainer video that explains the difference between the DP, I'll refer to that development permit, between your DP and your building permit. So I felt very comfortable.

Garret B Angle (24:03.072)

smoke barrier, there's a lot of things that you have there. What's really nice is they even have this little explainer video that explains the difference between the DP, I'll refer to that development permit, between your DP and your building permit. So I felt very comfortable. But even with all of that, they also have your checklists and everything that I needed.

Garret (24:19.628)

But even with all of that, they also have your checklists and everything that I needed. But I saw there was a fine print. If you have any questions, feel free to contact one of our permit technicians. We'd be happy to explain it to you. And when I see things like that, I take full advantage of it. I use that with the government when I'm going to a residential tenancies branch. Let's say I'm applying to get, you know,

Garret B Angle (24:27.566)

But I saw there was a fine print. If you have any questions, feel free to contact one of our permit technicians. We'd be happy to explain it to you. And when I see things like that, I take full advantage of it. I use that with the government when I'm going to a residential tenancies branch. Let's say I'm applying to get, you know, a large apartment block off rent control. I'm going to actually speak to the officers that are going to be making a judgment call on my project to say, hey, what do you think of my project?

Garret (24:47.98)

a large apartment block off rent control, I'm going to actually speak to the officers that are gonna be making a judgment call on my project to say, hey, what do you think of my project? I'm about to submit it. Can you see any flaws with it? If you have that opportunity, grab it with both hands and don't let it go. So I booked a Zoom meeting with the permit technician and we went over the entire project. He explained everything to me. He explained the square footage calculations.

Garret B Angle (24:57.472)

I'm about to submit it, can you see any flaws with it? If you have that opportunity, grab it with both hands and don't let it go. So I booked a Zoom meeting with the permit technician and we went over the entire project. He explained everything to me, he explained the square footage calculations, he explained why we needed all of this and I felt pretty comfortable.

Garret (25:17.036)

He explained why we needed all of this and I felt pretty comfortable. So let's talk about the square footage calculation because that really is what caused a lot of delays, not to be a spoiler here. So this is, I'm gonna quote from the actual regulations, the floor area of the suite, let's be no larger than 33 % of the combined floor area of the principal dwelling and the secondary suite or,

Garret B Angle (25:22.542)

So let's talk about the square footage calculation because that really is what caused a lot of delays, not to be a spoiler here. So this I'm going to quote from the actual regulations, the floor area of the suite must be no larger than 33 % of the combined floor area of the principal dwelling and the secondary suite or 800 square feet, whatever is less. So basically they're only allowing an 800 square foot

Garret (25:46.604)

800 square feet, whatever's less. So basically they're only allowing an 800 square foot secondary suite. That's not very big. It's basically you can't have more than a one or two bedroom. So think about this though. They're basing that on 33 % of your actual total volume, meaning you're combined of the building plus your main floor unit. So if you have purchased too large of a single family home for your secondary suite project, number one, you've overpaid because,

Garret B Angle (25:52.448)

secondary suite. That's not very big. It's basically you can't have more than a one or two bedroom. So think about this though. They're basing that on 33 % of your actual total volume, meaning you're combined of the building plus your main floor unit. So if you have purchased too large of a single family home for your secondary suite project, number one, you've overpaid because now you're going to be leaving a whole bunch of unused space that you can't designate to the secondary suite because you can only

Garret (26:16.428)

Now you're gonna be leaving a whole bunch of unused space that you can't designate to the secondary suite because you can only have 800 square feet. So you have to designate it as common or storage area. While you should have some kind of storage area, that is really a waste of, technically it's a waste of money, right? A waste of your paying too much for the asset. The second thing, which is quite interesting, the floor area cannot be less than 350 square feet. So.

Garret B Angle (26:22.304)

have 800 square feet so you have to designate it as common or storage area. While you should have some kind of storage area that is really a waste of technically it's a waste of money right and waste of your paying too much for the asset. The second thing which is quite interesting the floor area cannot be less than 350 square feet so now we have a target and specifications between 350 and 800 square feet. Now keep in mind we're still before the

Garret (26:45.164)

Now we have a target and specifications between 350 and 800 square feet. Now keep in mind, we're still before the possession date. I allowed six full weeks for my two visits and for my estimates and to submit my permit so I could start as soon as we received the keys from the lawyers. Therefore, the next step then was I also had to get what's called an owner statement signed by the owner. The reason for that is I didn't...

Garret B Angle (26:52.16)

the possession date. I allow six full weeks for my two visits, for my estimates and to submit my permit so I can start as soon as we receive the keys from the lawyers. Therefore...

The next step then was I also had to get what's called an owner statement signed by the owner. The reason for that is I didn't technically own the property yet. So at least in our city, and you probably have this wherever you are, if you want to submit a permit on behalf of an owner, you have to get a signed statement. It's basically permission from the property owner that you are allowed to put a permit in your name or their name, and they're giving you permission.

Garret (27:13.9)

technically own the property yet. So at least in our city, and you probably have this wherever you are, if you want to submit a permit on behalf of an owner, you have to get a signed statement. It's basically permission from the property owner that you are allowed to put a permit in your name or their name, and they're giving you permission. Again, I wanted to get ahead and submit this before possession. So that's why I wanted to do this so that the land title search was going to match exactly what was going to be on the permit.

Garret B Angle (27:33.038)

Again, I wanted to get ahead and submit this before possession, so that's why I wanted to do this. So that the land title search was going to match exactly what was going to be on the permit. So the next step, I needed a floor plan. I knew where I wanted my windows. I knew where my egress windows were going to be. And I had a pretty good idea where we were going to be putting the bathroom and the kitchen.

Garret (27:43.276)

So the next step, I needed a floor plan. I knew where I want my windows. I knew where my egress windows are going to be. And I had a pretty good idea where we were going to be putting the bathroom and the kitchen. So because of speed, I did have some drafters that I had used, but two, three, four week process, have them come out, measure, do some field measurements. I just wanted to go a lot faster. I do have a little bit of experience being a kind of a...

Garret B Angle (27:54.702)

So because of speed, I did have some drafters that I had used, but two, three, four week process, have them come out, measure, do some field measurements. I just wanted to go a lot faster. I do have a little bit of experience being a kind of a self -professed computer nerd that I knew how to use like home CAD programs. So of course being me, I went to Home Depot, I bought a really nice Bluetooth measuring tool, which syncs

Garret (28:12.076)

self -professed computer nerd that I knew how to use like home CAD programs. So of course, being me, I went to Home Depot, I bought a really nice Bluetooth measuring tool, which synced with the program that I was going to be using. I researched some software there. I had to learn that CAD program. And then I did my complete layout. Looked very professional. It had all of the labels.

Garret B Angle (28:24.608)

with the program that I was going to be using. I researched some software there. I had to learn that CAD program and then I did my complete layout. It looked very professional. It had all of the labels, electrical, had all of the dimensions on everything. Basically, I went through the permit application checklist and I tried to mimic exactly what they wanted.

Garret (28:40.524)

electrical, had all of the dimensions on everything. Basically, I went through the permit application checklist and I tried to mimic exactly what they wanted. I then had my door and window company that our property management company uses quote, and to draw up plans for the egress windows, including stamped engineering drawings. I had all of that, followed the permits checklist, made my payment, and now it was just a waiting period after I submitted everything. Finally,

Garret B Angle (28:49.838)

I then had my door and window company that our property management company uses quote, and to draw plans for the egress windows, including stamped engineering drawings. I had all of that, followed the permits checklist, made my payment, and now it was just a waiting period after I submitted everything. Finally, now I'm still waiting for the permits, but possession day comes through.

Garret (29:10.828)

Now I'm still waiting for the permits, but possession day comes through. Get the keys from the lawyers. Always visit a property on possession day because you have to take your meter readings, your water, your gas, your hydro, just and call them into the lawyers.

Garret B Angle (29:15.054)

get the keys from the lawyers, always visit a property on possession day because you have to take your meter readings, your water, your gas, your hydro, just and call them into the lawyers. I went there, they had this lovely rope door, rope for a door handle in the back, but whatever. We were gonna be changing it anyways. But.

Garret (29:28.812)

I went there, they had this lovely rope door, rope for a door handle in the back, but whatever. We were gonna be changing it anyways. But I found three deficiencies and that's why you want to go on possession day. I found that the gate for going into the backyard was broken and on the ground. I don't know why, but then I also found a broken window.

Garret B Angle (29:40.398)

I found three deficiencies and that's why you want to go on possession day. I found that the gate for going into the backyard was broken and on the ground. I don't know why, but then I also found a broken window and there was this very large snooker table, a six foot by 12 foot snooker table in the basement. And I thought they were going to be taking it and it was still there.

Garret (29:57.196)

And there was this very large snooker table, a six foot by 12 foot snooker table in the basement. And I thought they were going to be taking it and it was still there. So the fence gate, I could argue with it, have them send a handyman honestly, because everything that is supposed to be during possession is supposed to be the way I viewed it during the, during the showing. But I had my drill with me and I had screws. So I took five or 10 minutes just to fix the fence gate.

Garret B Angle (30:06.446)

So the fence gate, I could argue with it, have them send a handyman honestly, because everything that is supposed to be during possession is supposed to be the way I viewed it during the showing. But I had my drill with me and I had screws, so I took five or ten minutes just to fix the fence gate. The broken window I had an issue with, but we went back and forth a little bit and it turned out there was actually a hailstorm if you can believe it, two days before possession. And I believe that's what broke the

Garret (30:26.54)

The broken window I had an issue with, but we went back and forth a little bit and it turned out there was actually a hailstorm, if you can believe it, two days before possession. And I believe that's what broke the older window. And again, I was gonna be chained in the windows in the matter of a month or so. Now we get to the pool table. And this is an interesting story. So with the contractors are like, that thing must be worth a lot of money. It's a Brunswick, you know, it looks really, really old. It actually...

Garret B Angle (30:36.352)

the older window and again I was going to be chained in the windows in a matter of a month or so. Now we get to the pool table and this is an interesting story. So with the contractors were like that thing must be worth a lot of money it's a Brunswick you know it looks really really old it actually you know it was probably almost eight years old according to my realtor. So great.

Garret (30:55.148)

You know, it was probably almost 80 years old according to my realtor. So great, try to look on Facebook to see what some of these are gonna be worth. And they're worth surprisingly only about $2 ,000. I'm like, okay, well maybe I'll just give it away. I mean, six by 12 foot, right? But there were a lot of six by 12 pool tables on Facebook. So I called a local games room that I had installed my pool table in my house and I was shocked.

Garret B Angle (31:00.686)

try to look on Facebook to see what some of these are going to be worth and they're worth surprisingly only about $2 ,000. I'm like, okay, well maybe I'll just give it away. I mean, six by 12 foot, right? But there were a lot of six by 12 pool tables on Facebook. So I called a local games room that I had installed my pool table in my house and I was shocked. Number one, he said, there's five independent pieces of slate that you take apart for this table.

Garret (31:23.724)

Number one, he said, there's five independent pieces of slate that you take apart for this table and each piece weighs like a thousand pounds. So he said, be very careful trying to give this away to somebody because number one, they could hurt themselves and number two, they're gonna wreck the pool table and they're not gonna be very happy with you. I said, well, how much is it gonna cost to move this pool table? He said, well, just to disassemble it and delivery charge to wherever you want it to go, $2 ,500.

Garret B Angle (31:30.592)

and each piece weighs like a thousand pounds. So he said be very careful trying to give this away to somebody because number one they could hurt themselves and number two they're going to wreck the pool table and you're not going to be very happy with you. I said well how much is it going to cost to move this pool table? He said well just to disassemble it and delivery charge to wherever you want to go $2 ,500.

okay and he said plus if they want us to reassemble it on that site it's another 650 plus tax so we're talking about almost $3 ,500 so I can't just give it away because that means somebody's going to have to commit $3 ,500 so I mean I wasn't about to to just you know eat the cost of having to move this thing on my own that's not really fair so I went back to my lawyer

Garret (31:54.508)

Okay, and he said, plus if they want us to reassemble it on that site, it's another 650 plus tax. So we're talking about almost $3 ,500. So I can't just give it away because that means somebody's gonna have to commit $3 ,500. So I mean, I wasn't about to just, you know, eat the costs of having to move this thing on my own. That's not really fair. So I went back to my lawyer, went back and forth.

Garret B Angle (32:21.358)

went back and forth, you know, didn't hear anything. He said, okay, the family will call you. The family will call you. Nothing. After some threats, finally I spoke to the owner and he said, okay, fine. We're going to have to get rid of it. His nephew had been living in the house prior to us buying it. So he, the owner said that he was going to rent a bin, drop it into the driveway, like one of those large junk holding bins. And his nephew is going to be there this Friday to basically break apart.

Garret (32:23.724)

you know, didn't hear anything. He said, okay, the family will call you. The family will call you. Nothing. After some threats, finally I spoke to the owner and he said, okay, fine. We're going to have to get rid of it. His nephew had been living in the house prior to us buying it. So he, the owner said that he was going to rent a bin, drop it into the driveway, like one of those large junk hauling bins. And his nephew is going to be there this Friday to...

basically break apart this pool table and put it in the bin, it's gonna haul away. So Friday comes, I'm there, and they're late.

Garret B Angle (32:51.264)

this pool table and put it in the bin and it's going to haul away. So Friday comes, I'm there, and they're late. boy, I just, when I think back to this, can you imagine my frustration and I just want to get going on this project. So they're late. Then they finally show up an hour late. And then they're like, you know what? We forgot our gloves. So we're going to have to go to Home Depot.

Garret (33:00.973)

boy, I just, when I think back to this, can you imagine my frustration? And I just want to get going on this project. So they're late. Then they finally show up an hour late. And then they're like, you know what? We forgot our gloves. So we're going to have to go to Home Depot. So they go to Home Depot, they get some gloves, they come back. I hear some banging and whatever downstairs for about an hour. And then they come back up. They have to go rent a tool because they...

Garret B Angle (33:17.774)

So they go to Home Depot, they get some gloves, they come back. But here is some banging and whatever downstairs for about an hour. And then they come back up, they have to go rent a tool because they need to be able to break this thing apart like a jackhammer. They were trying to hit it with a sledgehammer. Long story short, six hours later of me waiting around in this house, they're finally done. All right, so let's transition. In the meantime.

Garret (33:29.74)

they need to be able to break this thing apart like a jackhammer. They were trying to hit it with a sledgehammer. Long story short, six hours later of me waiting around in this house, they're finally done. All right, so let's transition. In the meantime, I finally get an email back from the city and they need more information. My floor plans are not accurate. Now I had submitted the main floor floor plans.

Garret B Angle (33:44.558)

I finally get an email back from the city and they need more information. My floor plans are not accurate.

Now I had submitted the main floor floor plans based on just my floor plan that was from a virtual tour software because I didn't think I needed to have accurate floor plans for the upstairs. Well, they were accurate, but they weren't in the same format of my basement plans, my actual plans. I went and made the changes. I want to point out that this is in the summer and at least in our permit department in my city, there's a three week lag time between responses. So think about that.

Garret (33:53.996)

based on just my floor plan that was from a virtual tour software because I didn't think I needed to have accurate floor plans for the upstairs. Well, they were accurate, but they weren't in the same format of my basement plans, my actual plans. I went and made the changes. I wanna point out that this is in the summer and at least in our permit department in my city, there's a three week lag time between responses. So think about that for a second.

Garret B Angle (34:20.352)

that for a second. For them, so you submit something or you ask a question, it takes three weeks for them to respond to you. So it came back and it was still wrong. So now I'm dealing with over a month now, right? Submitted it, waited for three weeks, resubmit, heard back three weeks later, it's wrong. It's six weeks of wasted time.

Garret (34:22.732)

For them, so you submit something or you ask a question, it takes three weeks for them to respond to you. So it came back and it was still wrong. So now I'm dealing with over a month now, right? Submitted it, waited for three weeks, resubmit, heard back three weeks later, it's wrong. That's six weeks of wasted time. I happen to be going for coffee with a fellow investor. He had done one.

Garret B Angle (34:44.398)

I happened to be going for coffee with a fellow investor. He had done one secondary suite and he had a fantastic suggestion. He said, why don't you get a professional drafting person to draw up all your plans. He even recommended somebody that had done like 10 or 12 of these secondary suite projects. And now it's going to be on letterhead. It's going to be properly submitted. They're going to be using the actual symbols. I mean, what do I know, right? I mean, I'm just an amateur here.

Garret (34:49.676)

Secondary suite and he had a fantastic suggestion. He said why don't you get a professional drafting person to draw up all your plans? He even recommended somebody that had done like 10 or 12 of these secondary suite projects and now it's gonna be on letterhead It's gonna be properly submitted. They're gonna be using the actual symbols. I mean, what do I know, right? I mean, I'm just an amateur here

Garret B Angle (35:12.398)

I initially did this myself for speed purposes because I wanted to submit the app as quickly as possible before possession. But now we're after possession. So he gave me a referral, I spoke to the drafting company, they came out the very next day, they took their field measurements, perfect. Two days later, they had the plans emailed off to me based on my HomeCat drawings. I submitted those to the city.

Garret (35:13.068)

I initially did this myself for speed purposes because I wanted to submit the app, if you recall, as quickly as possible before possession, but now we're after possession. So he gave me a referral. I spoke to the drafting company. They came out the very next day. They took their field measurements. Perfect. Two days later, they had the plans emailed off to me based on my HomeCAD drawings. I submitted those to the city. Now, in the meantime, while waiting for the permit, keep in mind,

Garret B Angle (35:38.286)

Now, in the meantime, while waiting for the permit, keep in mind in August I submitted the permit and then lose possession. So I want to give you an update on some of the other things that were happening at the same time during this waiting period.

Garret (35:43.052)

In August, I submitted the permit and then there's possession. So I wanna give you an update on some of the other things that were happening at the same time during this waiting period. In the basement, they had this older floor tile and being a 1960s house, I did suspect that it was gonna have asbestos. So I worked that into my budget to have to remove this maybe one room full, maybe 10 by 12 foot room. So I had my asbestos company come out, I had it tested.

Garret B Angle (35:52.43)

In the basement, they had this older floor tile and being a 1960s house, I did suspect that it was going to have asbestos. So I worked that into my budget to have to remove this, this maybe one roomful, maybe 10 by 12 foot room. So I had my asbestos company come out. I had it tested. But again, and I love working with companies that look at the bigger picture. They said, you really need to test your drywall and your stucco because of the age of the house, drywall and stucco can.

Garret (36:12.844)

But again, and I love working with companies that look at the bigger picture, they said, you really need to test your drywall and your stucco because of the age of the house, drywall and stucco can also have asbestos. So now I'm a little bit freaking out. Maybe not about the stucco because we're gonna be removing the chimney on the outside, but the drywall upstairs, we were gonna be doing some renovations. If I had to do asbestos removal on the upstairs, it was probably gonna add another nine or $10 ,000 to the project.

Garret B Angle (36:22.336)

also have asbestos. So now I'm a little bit freaking out. Maybe not about the stucco because we're going to be removing the chimney on the outside but the drywall upstairs we were going to be doing some renovations. If I had to do asbestos removal on the upstairs it was probably going to add another nine or ten thousand dollars to the project.

Removing the chimney, the reason we were thinking about removing the chimney is because we're going to be changing the roof and something and the furnace. So we're not going to be needing the chimney anymore. And one thing I like to do, if possible, if you don't have, again, it's all about timing. If you have a furnace that's going to be removed, you don't need the chimney and you're changing the roof. You get rid of the chimney because then you don't have to worry in the future about the flashing around the chimney or any kind of other leaks. It's basically, it prevents a lot of, a lot of

Garret (36:42.22)

Removing the chimney, the reason we were thinking about removing the chimney is because we were gonna be changing the roof and something and the furnace. So we're not going to be needing the chimney anymore. And one thing I like to do, if possible, if you don't have, again, it's all about timing. If you have a furnace that's gonna be removed, you don't need the chimney and you're changing the roof, you get rid of the chimney because then you don't have to worry in the future about the flashing around the chimney or any kind of other leaks. It's basically.

it prevents a lot of future leaks. So the tiles and the stucco tested positive, the drywall was okay, thank goodness. That would have really been devastating. Okay, so I needed to then have the tiles removed and it actually went all the way up the stairs into the landing. So they had to do their negative pressure, there was a whole big thing they needed to do. With the stucco being positive,

Garret B Angle (37:11.424)

future needs. So the tiles and the stucco tested positive, the drywall was okay, thank goodness.

That would have really been devastating. Okay, so I needed to then have the tiles removed and it actually went all the way up the stairs into the landing. So they had to do their negative pressure. There was a whole big thing they needed to do. With the stucco being positive, I just decided because there was going to be extra work going through this asbestos removal that I was going to just leave the chimney. It wasn't really harming anything. I just thought, why not? Okay.

Garret (37:39.724)

I just decided because there was gonna be extra work going through this asbestos removal that I was gonna just leave the chimney. It wasn't really harming anything. I just thought, why not? Okay. So had the asbestos removed, that went off without a hitch. Had the air quality tested, positive test or sorry, a positive test for good air quality, no asbestos in the air anymore. So that was clean. We had the green light for that. Still didn't have my permit. Then the roofing quote came,

Garret B Angle (37:50.83)

So, had the asbestos removed, that went off without a hitch. Had the air quality tested, positive test, or sorry, positive test for good air quality, no asbestos in the air anymore. So that was clean, we had the green light for that. Still didn't have my permit. Then the roofing quote came, had the roofers come out, they did all of their work that they needed to. When you're doing a roof,

Garret (38:10.028)

had the roofers come out, they did all of their work that they needed to. When you're doing a roof, I often like, the company really doesn't know if the decking is going to be rotten or if there's gonna be multiple layers of shingles. They kind of gave you a quote based on a worst and best case scenario, but we were already starting to chalk up some extra expenses that I didn't anticipate. Obviously I have my contingency, but I just wanted to make sure that this is going to be good.

Garret B Angle (38:16.302)

I often like the company really doesn't know if the decking is going to be rotten or if there's going to be multiple layers of shingles. They kind of gave you a quote based on a worst in best case scenario, but we were already starting to chalk up some extra expenses that I didn't anticipate. Obviously I have my contingency, but I just wanted to make sure that this is going to be good. So I'm going to roll some an interview because I went on site and I spoke to the site supervisor and he explained exactly.

Garret (38:38.828)

So I'm gonna roll some an interview because I went on site and I spoke to the site supervisor and he explained exactly what was going on with the project and gives me an overview of what they found when they lifted the shingles.

Garret B Angle (39:03.246)

Okay, so that's the roof. Talk about the permits in a little bit. We're now in November and December and I'm going to the property twice a week because I'm still waiting for my development permit, visiting a couple times a week because of the heating and just because of general security. And I find the furnace not working. You can definitely tell you open the door and it's cold on the inside.

Garret (39:03.948)

Okay, so that's the roof. Talk about the permits in a little bit. We're now in November and December and I'm going to the property twice a week because I'm still waiting for my development permit, visiting a couple times per week because of the heating and just because of general security. And I find the furnace not working. You can definitely tell you open the door and it's cold on the inside.

Garret B Angle (39:29.487)

Now it's an older furnace, the original furnace. I go in and try to relate the pilot, use all the different property management techniques that I know.

Garret (39:30.22)

Now it's an older furnace, the original furnace. I go and try to relight the pilot, use all the different property management techniques that I know. And then I had to call my HVAC technician. They show up that day and give me the bad news. There's some kind of flame sensor gone, plus maybe the circuit board and some other issues, at least $800. So what do I do? I'm gonna be changing out this furnace, but I don't wanna repair the old one for $800, but we haven't even done demolition yet.

Garret B Angle (39:37.998)

And then I had to call my HVAC technician. They show up that day and give me the bad news. There's some kind of flame sensor gone, plus maybe the circuit board and some other issues, at least $800. So what do I do? I'm going to be changing out this furnace, but I don't want to repair the old one for $800, but we haven't even done demolition yet. So I had no choice but to change it out. But here's the issue. If you remember, the furnace and the water tank were going to be moved because that's where I was

Garret (40:00.524)

So I had no choice but to change it out. But here's the issue. If you remember, the furnace and hot water tank were going to be moved because that's where I was going to be having my hallway for the entry to the secondary suite. And we haven't demoed anything yet. So how is the HVAC company going to know where they're going to be putting the furnace and how they're going to be moving anything when there's all the walls that have to be taken down and there's no new walls where they're going to be putting the furnace for reference? So.

Garret B Angle (40:07.904)

going to be having my hallway for the entry to the secondary suite and we haven't demoed anything yet. So how is the HVAC company going to know where they're going to be putting the furnace and how they're going to be moving anything when there's all the walls that have to be taken down and there's no new walls where they're going to be putting the furnace for reference. So you fast forward to install day and you know I had to change it I had no choice I thought and I'll admit that I'm just going to

Garret (40:30.028)

you fast forward to install day and you know, I had to change it. I had no choice. I thought and I'll admit that I was just gonna go and put some chalk on the floor, like snap a chalk line and some tape as a reference where the walls were gonna go. And when I went there, I found that there was a non -load bearing wall for the furnace room that it was exactly where the furnace was supposed to be. Now I'm half an hour away from the HVAC company coming with a brand new furnace.

Garret B Angle (40:37.76)

and put some chalk on the floor, like snap a chalk line and some tape as a reference where the walls were going to go.

And when I went there, I found that there was a non -load bearing wall for the furnace room that was exactly where the furnace was supposed to be. Now, I'm half an hour away from the HTC company coming with a brand new furnace, desperate times, desperate measures. I had a screwdriver in my car. I borrowed something else from the technician that had showed up a little bit early. He was just going to work on some plumbing. And it basically demoed the wall and the

Garret (41:00.3)

Desperate times, desperate measures. I had a screwdriver in my car. I borrowed something else from the technician that had showed up a little bit early. He was just gonna work on some plumbing. And I basically demoed the wall and the paneling and took everything off with just a screwdriver. Anyways, so the furnace and the new air conditioning went in flawlessly. I hung around the entire day because I wanted to ensure that the new gas pipe that they were going to be extending,

Garret B Angle (41:15.232)

the paneling and took everything off with just a screwdriver.

Anyways, so the furnace and the air conditioning went in flawlessly. I hung around the entire day because I wanted to ensure that the new gas pipe that they were going to be extending was tucked up really nicely underneath the main beam. Wanted to ensure that we got our maximum ceiling height. So here's the new furnace. You can see where, you know, it's not completely done yet because there's going to have to be a wall put up. Again, chicken and egg. The conundrum is we don't have our permit yet.

Garret (41:29.964)

was tucked up really nicely underneath the main beam. I wanted to ensure that we got our maximum ceiling height. So here's the new furnace. You can see where, you know, it's not completely done yet because there's gonna have to be a wall put up, but again, chicken and egg. The conundrum is we don't have our permit yet. We put the doors and windows that went in, but obviously not the window, egress windows, because that was with, it was engineered tied to the permit, which I didn't have yet.

Garret B Angle (41:48.334)

We put the doors and windows that went in, but obviously not the window, egress windows, because that was with, it was engineered tied to the permit, which it didn't have yet. But the windows and doors went in really, really nice. You can see how beautiful they are. Brand new front and back because, back door, because I also wanted to improve the cosmetics at the outside of the property along with the new roof.

Garret (41:59.052)

but the windows and doors went in really, really nice. You can see how beautiful they are. Brand new front and back door because I also wanted to improve the cosmetics of the outside of the property along with the new roof. So let's get back to that pesky DP, my development permit. I did have some drafting issues and I don't wanna speak badly of them. It could have been the city, but regardless the end result.

Garret B Angle (42:14.35)

So let's get back to that pesky DP, my development permit.

I did have some drafting issues and I don't want to speak badly of them. It could have been the city, but regardless the end result is it took 91 back and forth emails to get this right. Some of the issues were simple, like not having a north symbol on the site plan or the east and west property dimensions were the exact same. I mean, they should be, it's a square or rectangular lot. So that's an accuracy error.

Garret (42:28.812)

is it took 91 back and forth emails to get this right. Some of the issues were simple, like not having a North symbol on the site plan or the East and West property dimensions were the exact same. And I mean, they should be, it's a square or rectangular lot. So that's an accuracy error. But keep in mind that every time there's an error, it's three weeks.

Garret B Angle (42:47.534)

But keep in mind that every time there's an error...

it's three weeks. So if you go back and forth three times, that's nine weeks or two months, you can see why my project is behind by six months. But the majority of the issues were related to a square footage calculation error. Now keep in mind, one third of the entire overall dimensions. But now there's a difference between the inside and the outside, right? Because if you're taking inside dimensions, you're starting with a smaller square footage, you take one third of that,

Garret (42:52.972)

So if you go back and forth three times, that's nine weeks or two months. You can see why my project is behind by six months. But the majority of the issues were related to a square footage calculation error. Now keep in mind, one third of the entire overall dimensions. But now there's a difference between the inside and the outside, right? Because if you're taking inside dimensions, you're starting with a smaller square footage. You take one third of that.

Garret B Angle (43:20.704)

and you base all of your dimensions on that for your new secondary suite. But the city was saying, no, you have to take it from the outside measurements, which adds quite a bit. So they kept rejecting this. Keep in mind with the three week conundrum of the back and forth, and it just took months and months. So after those 91 back and forth emails, six months later, the city sends me an email saying, finally, everything is going to be approved. The square footage calculation is correct. The plans are good.

Garret (43:21.516)

and then you base all of your dimensions on that for your new secondary suite. But the city was saying, no, you have to take it from the outside measurements, which adds quite a bit. So they kept rejecting this. Keep in mind what the three week conundrum of the back and forth, and it just took months and months. So after those 91 back and forth emails, six months later, the city sends me an email saying, finally, everything is going to be approved. The square footage calculation is correct. The plans are good.

Garret B Angle (43:50.56)

But I need to show two parking spots. I'm like, two parking spots. I have two parking spots. If you recall, we've got a driveway in front and we have a parking spot in the back lane. So I spoke to them.

Garret (43:51.372)

but I need to show two parking spots. I'm like, two parking spots. I have two parking spots. If you recall, we've got a driveway in the front and we have a parking spot in the back lane.

So I spoke to them and I'm like, we already have two parking spots. And he says, no, according to Biolog, one, two, three, four, five, you aren't allowed to have a front driveway in that neighborhood. And I'm like, but there's like five or six properties that have front driveways. He's like, I don't really care. You're not allowed to have a front driveway. Show me some plans that have two parking spots in the back.

Garret B Angle (44:07.306)

and I'm like we already have two parking spots and he says no according to bylaw one two three four five you aren't allowed to have a front driveway in that neighborhood and I'm like but there's like five or six properties that have front driveways he's like I don't really care you're not allowed to have a front driveway show me some plans that have two parking spots in the back and I mean if you realize and remember that's why I chose part of the reason why I chose this property.

Garret (44:30.764)

And I mean, if you realize and remember that's why I chose part of the reason why I chose this property. Anyways, I didn't have any time to waste and try to get through the weekend, go to my drafter, get these plans. You know, this is another tip. When you have a permit technician that's willing to speak to you on the phone, work as fast as humanly possible. This is a Friday. I basically canceled all my meetings.

Garret B Angle (44:36.046)

Anyways, I didn't have any time to waste and try to get through the weekend. Go to my drafter, get these plans. You know, this is another tip. When you have...

technician that's willing to speak to you on the phone, work as fast as humanly possible. This is a Friday. I basically canceled all my meetings and because I couldn't get a hold of my drafter and I didn't want to wait, I basically used Photoshop on my plans and moved the lines out of those two spots. I quipple, triple and quadruple checked all of my measurements and resubmitted. And because I did that so quickly and he was kind of expecting it, that afternoon I

Garret (44:59.98)

And because I couldn't get a hold of my drafter and I didn't wanna wait, I basically used Photoshop on my plans and moved the lines, added those two spots, I quipple, triple and quadruple checked all of my measurements and resubmitting. And because I did that so quickly and he was kind of expecting it, that afternoon I actually got my development permit. So after all of this, you know, this is completely brand new for me.

Garret B Angle (45:19.616)

actually got a development permit. So after all of this, you know this is completely brand new for me.

The next step then, once I have my DP, is the building permit. So I submitted my building permit for secondary suite and for basement development. Didn't think it'd be any different. And it's come back with some minor corrections, but I've resubmitted those. And at least as of the time of this recording, it should be any day so now we can start emulsion. So let's wrap up.

Garret (45:30.27)

The next step then once I have my DP is the building permit. So I submitted my building permit for a secondary suite and for basement development. Didn't think it'd be any different. And it's come back with some minor corrections, but I've resubmitted those. And at least as of the time of this recording, it should be any day. So now we can start demolishing. So let's wrap up. Next we have...

Garret B Angle (45:57.39)

Next, we have demo, we have the construction, and then we should be finished in a matter of two or three months. It's going to be very quickly because I have all my quotes ready and all my trades are ready to go. Do I have any regrets at this learning process and how long this took just to get a development permit?

Garret (45:59.724)

demo, we have the construction, and then we should be finished in a matter of two or three months. It's gonna be very quickly, because I have all my quotes ready and all my trades are ready to go. Do I have any regrets at this learning process and how long this took just to get a development permit? Well, I mean, I wish I had more time to devote to the project, because when I was going back and forth, really what I should have done with all this square footage and arguing back and forth with the permit tech,

Garret B Angle (46:17.454)

Well, I mean, I wish I had more time to devote to the project because when I was going back and forth, really what I should have done with all this square footage and arguing back and forth with the permit tech, I should have just printed them out, marched down there and had a face -to -face meeting with them. I would have probably saved another month. Okay. But keep in mind in December, I had this issue with my property management staff and I had let go all of my property managers, which forced me to focus more time.

Garret (46:29.516)

I should have just printed them out, marched down there and had a face -to -face meeting with them and I would have probably saved another month, okay? But keep in mind in December, I had this issue with my property management staff and I had let go all of my property managers which forced me to focus more time on the property management company. So admittedly, if I could have pushed harder and had that month.

Garret B Angle (46:47.36)

on the property management company. So admittedly, if I could have pushed harder and had that month, maybe it would have saved the month, but not much more than that because of a little bit of the back and forth. Now I want to specify that I chose to fund this one for the down payment with my personal money. Normally I use one of my capital partners for the down payment. Why did I do that this time?

Garret (46:54.892)

maybe would have saved a month, but not much more than that because of a little bit of the back and forth. Now I wanna specify that I chose to fund this one for the down payment with my personal money. Normally I use one of my capital partners for the down payment. Why did I do that this time? Because I never liked to embark on a brand new venture, not real estate, but a secondary suite. I never liked boring private capital where I don't have actual experience in that particular type of project.

Garret B Angle (47:10.894)

because I never like to embark on a brand new venture, not real estate, but a secondary suite. I never like boring private capital where I don't have actual experience in that particular type of project. I flipped, I've done burs, I've extensively ran out of properties, done some multifamily acquisitions, but I've never added a secondary suite with this permit process. And I didn't want to risk a delay on returning capital to one of my investors, so I decided to use my own money. And it's a good thing,

Garret (47:24.46)

I flipped, I've done burs, I've extensively rent out properties, done some multifamily acquisitions, but I've never added a secondary suite with this permit process. And I didn't want to risk a delay on returning capital to one of my investors. So I decided to use my own money. And it's a good thing because with my money tied up in the project and not one of my investors, the only problem I guess is that I'm paying interest, but the side benefit.

Garret B Angle (47:40.8)

because with my money tied up in the project and not one of my investors, the only problem I guess is that I'm paying interest. But the side benefit, we got through the winter and now the construction is going to get easier. So even though we were slightly delayed, think about that. My main contractor will now be able to make up a lot of time due to the speed without dealing with snow, temperatures, those types of things. So on my next

Garret (47:53.26)

We got through the winter and now the construction is gonna get easier. So even though we were slightly delayed, think about that. My main contractor will now be able to make up a lot of time due to the speed without dealing with snow, cold temperatures, those types of things. So on my next secondary suite, because again, I wanna do eight or 10 of these, this is gonna fund my personal retirement. Yes, I definitely go with one of my capital partners because using my own money is just slower.

Garret B Angle (48:10.656)

secondary suite because again I want to do eight or ten of these this is going to fund my personal retirement yes I definitely go with one of my capital partners because using my own money is just slower right I want to do at least two or three of these per year I'm gonna have one final note because we're dealing with an older building here we're dealing with egress windows last week last episode I had

Garret (48:21.612)

I want to do at least two or three of these per year. I'm going to have one final note because we're dealing with an older building here. We're dealing with egress windows. Last week, last episode, I had a real estate developer come onto the show and he talked about dealing with new versus nasty. Those were his words, Darcy Marler. It was a really, really good...

Garret B Angle (48:37.166)

a real estate developer come onto the show and he talked about dealing with new versus nasty. Those were his words, thirsty marlowe. It was a really, really good, I want to say almost enlightening episode for me because now I'm going to take this course in real estate development. I'm going to learn how to do a secondary suite with brand new construction on a vacant lot or an infill lot. Then I won't have to deal with this vestus egress windows, custom made windows,

Garret (48:49.9)

I wanna say almost enlightening episode for me because now I'm gonna take his course in real estate development. I'm gonna learn how to do a secondary suite with brand new construction on a vacant lot or an infill lot. Then I won't have to deal with asbestos, egress windows, custom -made windows, right? Because now we're doing windows on openings that are custom -made. Now perhaps I can buy spec windows from a big box store and design my plans around that.

Garret B Angle (49:07.072)

right because now we're doing windows on openings that are custom made now perhaps I can buy spec windows from a big box store and design my plans around that additionally because I want to do a lot of these I can have one big plan use the same plans over and over and over again so now I'm not customizing my drafting plans each and every time I buy a building all I have to concentrate on is buying an old nasty house knock it down make sure that I have my zoning

Garret (49:18.22)

Additionally, because I wanna do a lot of these, I can have one big plan, use the same plans over and over and over again. So now I'm not customizing my drafting plans each and every time I buy a building. All I have to concentrate on is buying an old nasty house, knock it down, make sure that I have my zoning and everything's in place and put up the exact same building. So again, it's all a learning curve.

Garret B Angle (49:36.928)

and everything's in place and put up the exact same building. So again, it's all a learning curve and new and modern efficient use of space. You get your maximum rental price, maximum building value. And Darcy said like Darcy said last week, I hate to tell you Garrett, but your kids don't want your 1950s crappy building. And you know, so key takeaways here from the experience. Number one, don't rush something.

Garret (49:45.548)

New and modern efficient use of space you get your maximum rental price maximum building value and Darcy said like Mike Darcy said last week I hate to tell you Garrett, but your kid don't your kids don't want your 1950s crappy building And you know so key takeaways here from the experience number one don't rush something submitting to the city number two double triple quadruple check your documents before submitting a

Garret B Angle (50:06.784)

submitting to the city. Number two, double, triple, quote, Drupal check your documents before submitting. Number three, if this is a brand new project type for you as it was for me, consider hiring a consultant, someone that's done it before from start to finish. I might charge you a few thousand to walk through you through the process or better yet, pay them more money to submit the actual project and plans and permits for you. Just so you can kind of look over the shoulder, hold the flashlight so it's

Garret (50:15.276)

Number three, if this is a brand new project type for you as it was for me, consider hiring a consultant, someone that's done it before from start to finish that might charge you a few thousand to walk through you through the process or better yet, pay them more money to submit the actual project and plans and permits for you. Just so you can kind of look over their shoulder, hold the flashlight so to speak so that the next one you know exactly what to do and yet they're getting your project passed and through so you can start construction.

Garret B Angle (50:36.64)

to speak so that the next one you know exactly what to do and yet they're getting your project passed and through so you can start construction. If you're doing this with capital investors and partners, something I chose not to do here, then be very upfront with them and explain in great detail how the permit process is the big unknown.

Garret (50:46.316)

If you're doing this with capital investors and partners, something I chose not to do here, then be very upfront with them and explain in great detail how the permit process is the big unknown. If you enjoyed this process and want to see more of this type of content, let me know in the comments. And don't forget to like the episode and subscribe to the channel, of course. Thanks for listening.

Garret B Angle (50:57.262)

If you enjoyed this process and want to see more of this type of content, let me know in the comments. And don't forget to like the episode and subscribe to the channel, of course. Thanks for listening.